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  • Opportunities for AI in Accessibility

    Opportunities for AI in Accessibility

    I thoroughly enjoyed reading Joe Dolson’s most recent article on the crossroads of AI and availability because of how skeptical he is of AI in general and how many people have been using it. In fact, I’m very skeptical of AI myself, despite my role at Microsoft as an accessibility technology strategist who helps manage the AI for Accessibility award program. As with any device, AI can be used in very positive, equitable, and visible ways, as well as in destructive, unique, and harmful ways. Additionally, there are a lot of uses in the subpar midsection as well.

    I’d like you to consider this a “yes … and” piece to complement Joe’s post. Instead of refuting everything he’s saying, I’m pointing out some areas where AI may make real, positive impacts on people with disabilities. To be clear, I’m not saying that there aren’t true threats or pressing problems with AI that need to be addressed; there are, and we’ve needed to address them, like, yesterday; instead, I want to take a moment to talk about what’s possible so that we can get there one day.

    Other words

    Joe’s article spends a lot of time examining how computer vision models can create other words. He raises a lot of valid points about the state of the world right now. And while computer-vision concepts continue to improve in the quality and complexity of information in their information, their benefits aren’t wonderful. He argues to be accurate that the state of image research is currently very poor, especially for some image types, in large part due to the lack of context-based analysis that exists in the AI systems ( which is a result of having separate “foundation” models for text analysis and image analysis ). Today’s models aren’t trained to distinguish between images that are contextually relevant ( should probably have descriptions ) and those that are purely decorative ( couldn’t possibly need a description ) either. Nonetheless, I still think there’s possible in this area.

    As Joe points out, human-in-the-loop publishing of ctrl text should definitely be a factor. And if AI can intervene and provide a starting point for alt text, even if the rapid reads,” What is this BS?” That’s certainly correct at all … Let me try to offer a starting point— I think that’s a win.

    If we can specifically teach a design to consider image usage in context, it might be able to help us more swiftly distinguish between images that are likely to be beautiful and those that are more descriptive. That will help clarify which situations require image descriptions, and it will increase authors ‘ effectiveness in making their sites more visible.

    While complex images—like graphs and charts—are challenging to describe in any sort of succinct way ( even for humans ), the image example shared in the GPT4 announcement points to an interesting opportunity as well. Let’s say you came across a map that was simply the description of the chart’s title and the type of representation it was: Pie map comparing smartphone usage to have phone usage in US households earning under$ 30, 000 annually. ( That would be a pretty bad alt text for a chart because it would frequently leave many unanswered questions about the data, but let’s just assume that that was the description in place. ) If your website knew that that picture was a pie graph ( because an ship model concluded this ), imagine a world where people could ask questions like these about the creative:

    • Perform more people use have telephones or smartphones?
    • How many more?
    • Is there a group of people that don’t fall into either of these pots?
    • How many people are that?

    For a moment, the chance to learn more about images and data in this way may be innovative for people with low vision and blindness as well as for those with different forms of color blindness, mental disabilities, and other issues. It could also be helpful in education settings to help people who can see these figures, as is, to understand the data in the figures.

    What if you could request your website to make a complicated map simpler? What if you demanded that the line graph be isolated into just one collection? What if you could request your computer to transform the colors of the various ranges to work better for variety of colour blindness you have? What if you demanded that it switch shades in favor of habits? That seems like a chance given the chat-based interface and our current ability to manipulate photos in the AI tools of today.

    Now imagine a purpose-built unit that was extract the information from that table and turn it to another style. Perhaps it could convert that pie chart (or, better yet, a series of pie charts ) into more usable ( and useful ) formats, like spreadsheets, for instance. That would be incredible!

    Matching systems

    When Safiya Umoja Noble chose to call her reserve Algorithms of Oppression, she hit the nail on the head. Although her book focused on the way that search engines can foster racism, I believe it’s equally true that all machine types have the potential to foster issue, prejudice, and hatred. Whether it’s Twitter always showing you the latest tweet from a bored billionaire, YouTube sending us into a Q-hole, or Instagram warping our ideas of what natural bodies look like, we know that poorly authored and maintained algorithms are incredibly harmful. Many of these are the result of a lack of diversity in the people who create and build them. There is still a lot of potential for algorithm development when these platforms are built with inclusive features in mind.

    Take Mentra, for example. They serve as a network of people with disabilities. Based on more than 75 data points, they match job seekers with potential employers using an algorithm. On the job-seeker side of things, it considers each candidate’s strengths, their necessary and preferred workplace accommodations, environmental sensitivities, and so on. On the employer side, it takes into account each work environment, communication strategies for each job, and other factors. Mentra made the decision to change the script when it came to the typical employment websites because it was run by neurodivergent people. They use their algorithm to propose available candidates to companies, who can then connect with job seekers that they are interested in, reducing the emotional and physical labor on the job-seeker side of things.

    When more people with disabilities are involved in the development of algorithms, this can lower the likelihood that these algorithms will harm their communities. Diverse teams are crucial because of this.

    Imagine that a social media company’s recommendation engine was tuned to analyze who you’re following and if it was tuned to prioritize follow recommendations for people who talked about similar things but who were different in some key ways from your existing sphere of influence. For instance, if you follow a group of white men who are not white or aren’t white and who also discuss AI, it might be wise to follow those who are also disabled or who are not white. If you followed its advice, you might be able to understand what is happening in the AI field more fully and nuancedly. These same systems should also use their understanding of biases about particular communities—including, for instance, the disability community—to make sure that they aren’t recommending any of their users follow accounts that perpetuate biases against (or, worse, spewing hate toward ) those groups.

    Other ways that AI can assist people with disabilities

    I’m sure I could go on and on about using AI to assist people with disabilities, but I’m going to make this last section into a bit of a lightning round if I weren’t trying to put this together in between other tasks. In no particular order:

      Voice preservation You might have heard about the voice-preserve offerings from Microsoft, Acapela, or others, or have seen the VALL-E paper or Apple’s Global Accessibility Awareness Day announcement. It’s possible to train an AI model to replicate your voice, which can be a tremendous boon for people who have ALS ( Lou Gehrig’s disease ) or motor-neuron disease or other medical conditions that can lead to an inability to talk. This technology can also be used to create audio deepfakes, so it’s something we need to approach responsibly, but the technology has truly transformative potential.
    • voice recognition is. Researchers like those in the Speech Accessibility Project are paying people with disabilities for their help in collecting recordings of people with atypical speech. As I type, they are actively recruiting people with Parkinson’s and related conditions, and they intend to expand this to other conditions as the project develops. More people with disabilities will be able to use voice assistants, dictation software, and voice-response services, as well as to use only their voices to control computers and other devices, according to this research.
    • Text transformation. The most recent generation of LLMs is capable of altering already-existing text without giving off hallucinations. This is incredibly empowering for those who have cognitive disabilities and who may benefit from text summaries or simplified versions, or even text that has been prepared for bionic reading.

    The importance of diverse teams and data

    We must acknowledge that our differences matter. The intersections of the identities we exist in have an impact on our lived experiences. These lived experiences—with all their complexities ( and joys and pain ) —are valuable inputs to the software, services, and societies that we shape. Our differences must be reflected in the data we use to develop new models, and those who provide that valuable information must be compensated for doing so. Inclusive data sets produce stronger models that promote more justifiable outcomes.

    Want a model that doesn’t demean or patronize or objectify people with disabilities? Make sure that the training data includes information about disabilities written by people with a range of disabilities.

    Want a model that uses ableist language without using it? You may be able to use existing data sets to build a filter that can intercept and remediate ableist language before it reaches readers. Despite this, AI models won’t soon replace human copy editors when it comes to sensitivity reading.

    Want a coding copilot who can provide you with useful recommendations after the jump? Train it on code that you know to be accessible.


    I have no doubts about how dangerous AI can and will be for people today, tomorrow, and for the rest of the world. However, I also think that we can acknowledge this and make thoughtful, thoughtful, and intentional changes in our approaches to AI that will reduce harm over time as well. Today, tomorrow, and well into the future.


    Many thanks to Kartik Sawhney for supporting the development of this article, Ashley Bischoff for providing me with invaluable editorial support, and of course, Joe Dolson for the prompt.

  • I am a creative.

    I am a creative.

    I have a creative side. What I do involves chemistry. It is a puzzle. I prefer to let it be done through me rather than through me.

    I am imaginative. Certainly all creative people approve of this brand. Not all people see themselves in this manner. Some innovative people practice scientific in their work. That is the way they are, and I take that into account. Perhaps I even have a small envy for them. However, my being and approach are different.

    Apologizing and qualifying in advance is a diversion. My brain uses that to destroy me. I put it off for the moment. I may regret and then qualify. After I’ve said what I originally said. which is sufficient.

    Except when it flows like a beverage valley and is simple.

    Sometimes it does. Maybe what I need to make arrives right away. When I say something at that time, I’ve learned not to say it because people often don’t work hard enough to acknowledge that the idea is the best idea even when you know it’s the best idea.

    Maybe I work and work and work until the thought strikes me. It occasionally arrives right away, but I don’t remind people for three weeks. Sometimes I get so excited about an idea that just came along that I blurt it out and didn’t stop myself. like a child who discovered a medal in one of his Cracker Jacks. Often I get away with this. Yes, that is the best idea, but often others disagree. The majority of the time, they don’t, and I regret that passion has faded.

    Joy should only be saved for the meet, when it will matter. not the informal gathering that two different gatherings precede that appointment. Nobody understands why these discussions occur. We keep saying we’re going to get rid of them, but we end up merely trying to. They occasionally yet excel. Sometimes they detract from the real function, though. Depending on what you do and where you do it, the ratio between when conferences are valuable and when they are a sad distraction vary. And who you are and how you go about doing it. Once, I digress. I have a creative side. That is the design.

    Often, a lot of diligent and individual work ends up with something that is barely useful. Often I have to accept that and move on to the next task.

    Don’t inquire about the procedure. I have a creative side.

    I am imaginative. My ambitions are not in my power. And I have no control over my best tips.

    I can nail ahead, fill in the blanks, or use images or information, which occasionally works. I can go for a move, which occasionally works. There is no connection between sizzling fuel and flowing pots, and I may be making dinner. I frequently have a sense of direction when I awaken. The idea that may have saved me disappears almost as frequently as I become aware and part of the world once more in a mindless breeze of oblivion. For ingenuity, in my opinion, originates in that other world. The one that we enter in ambitions and, possibly, before and after suicide. I’m not a writer, so that’s up to authors to think about. I have a creative side. And it’s for philosophers to build massive forces in their imaginative world that they claim to be true. But that is yet another diversion. And it’s sad. Possibly on a much bigger issue than whether or not I am creative. But this is still a departure from what I said when I came around.

    Often the result is mitigation. And suffering. Do you know the actor who is tortured by the cliché? Even when the artist ( this place that noun in quotes ) attempts to write a sweet drink jingle, a call in a worn-out comedy, or a budget request, it’s true.

    Some individuals who detest being called artistic perhaps been closeted artists, but that’s between them and their gods. No offence intended. Your reality is also true. But I should take care of me.

    Creatives identify artists.

    Disadvantages know cons, just like real rappers recognize actual rappers, just like queers recognize queers. People have a lot of regard for artists. We revere, follow, and nearly deify the great types. Of course, deifying any person is a dreadful error. We have been given warning. We are more knowledgeable. We are aware that people are really people. Because they are clay, like us, they squabble, they are depressed, they regret making the most important decisions, they are poor and hungry, they can be violent, and they can be as ridiculous as we can. But. But. However, they produce this incredible issue. They give birth to something that was unable to arise before them or otherwise. They are thought’s founders. And I suppose I should add that they are the mother of technology because it’s just lying it. Ba ho backside! That’s done, I suppose. Continue.

    Because we compare our personal small accomplishments to those of the great ones, designers denigrate them. Wonderful video I‘m not Miyazaki, though. Greatness is then that. That is glory straight out of the mouth of God. This meagre much creation that I made? It essentially fell off the turnip vehicle. And the carrots weren’t actually new.

    Artists is aware that they are at best Some. Yet Mozart’s original artists hold that opinion.

    I am imaginative. I haven’t worked in advertising in 30 times, but my previous artistic managers are the ones who make my hallucinations. They are correct in doing so. My mind goes blank when it really counts because I’m too stupid and complacent. No medication is available to treat innovative function.

    I am imaginative. Every experience I create has the potential to make Indiana Jones look older while snoring in a deck head. The more I pursue creativity, the faster I can finish my work, and the longer I brood and circle and gaze aimlessly before I can finish that work.

    I can move ten times more quickly than those who aren’t innovative, those who have only had a short-cut of creativity, and those who have just had a short-cut of creativity for work. Simply that I spend twice as long putting the work off as they do before I work ten times as quickly as they do. When I put my mind to it, I am so confident in my ability to do a fantastic work. I have an addiction to the delay jump. The climb also terrifies me.

    I don’t create art.

    I am imaginative. Never a performer. Though as a child, I had a dream that I would one day become that. Some of us fear and criticize our talents because we are not Michelangelos and Warhols. That is narcissism, but at least we don’t practice elections.

    I am imaginative. Despite my belief in reason and science, my decisions are based on my own senses. and sit in the aftermath of both the triumphs and disasters.

    I am imaginative. Every term I’ve said these may irritate another artists who have different viewpoints. Ask a question to two artists, and three thoughts will be formed. Our dispute, our interest in it, and our commitment to our own truth, at least in my opinion, are the proof that we are creative, no matter how we does think about it.

    I am imaginative. I lament my lack of taste in almost all of the areas of human understanding that I know very little about. And I put my preference before all other things in the areas that are most dear to my soul, or perhaps more precisely, to my passions. Without my passions, I may probably have to spend time staring living in the eye, which almost none of us can do for very long. No seriously. No actually. Because so much in existence is intolerable if you really look at it.

    I am imaginative. I think that when I am gone, some of the good parts of me will stay in the head of at least one additional person, just like a family does.

    Working frees me from worrying about my job.

    I am imaginative. I fear that my little product will disappear.

    I am imaginative. I spend way too much time making the next thing, given that almost nothing I create did achieve the level of brilliance I conceive of.

    I am imaginative. I think that approach is the greatest secret. I think I have to consider it so strongly that I actually made the foolish decision to publish an essay I wrote without having to go through or edit. I swear I didn’t do this frequently. But I did it right away because I was even more frightened of forgetting what I was saying because I was afraid of you seeing through my sad movements toward the wonderful.

    There. I believe I said it correctly.

  • Humility: An Essential Value

    Humility: An Essential Value

    Humility, a writer’s most important quality, has a great circle to it. What about sincerity, an business manager’s necessary value? Or a surgeon’s? Or a student’s? They all have excellent sounding voices. When humility is our guiding light, the course is usually available for fulfillment, development, relation, and commitment. We’re going to discuss why in this section.

    That said, this is a guide for developers, and to that conclusion, I’d like to begin with a story—well, a voyage, actually. It’s a private one, and I’m going to make myself prone as well. I call it:

    The Ludicrous Pate of Justin: The Tale of Justin

    When I was coming out of arts school, a long-haired, goateed novice, write was a known quantity to me, design on the web, however, was riddled with complexities to understand and learn, a problem to be solved. Although I had formal training in typography, layout, and creative design, what most intrigued me was how these traditional skills could be applied to a young online landscape. This theme may eventually form the rest of my profession.

    So I devoured HTML and JavaScript novels into the wee hours of the morning and self-taught myself how to code during my freshman year rather than student and go into print like many of my companions. I wanted—nay, needed—to better understand the underlying relevance of what my design decisions may think when rendered in a website.

    The so-called” Wild West” of website design was the late 1990s and early 2000s. Manufacturers at the time were all figuring out how to use layout and visual connection to the online environment. What were the guidelines? How may we break them and also engage, entertain, and present information? How could my values, which include value, humility, and relation, go along with that on a more general degree? I was eager to find out.

    Those are amazing factors between non-career relationships and the world of design, even though I’m talking about a different time. What are your main passions, or ideals, that elevate medium? The main themes are the same, basically the same as what we previously discussed on the primary parallels between what fulfills you, independent of the physical or digital realms.

    First within tables, animated GIFs, Flash, then with Web Standards, divs, and CSS, there was personality, raw unbridled creativity, and unique means of presentment that often defied any semblance of a visible grid. Splash screens and “browser requirement” pages aplenty. Usability and accessibility were typically victims of such a creation, but such paramount facets of any digital design were largely (and, in hindsight, unfairly) disregarded at the expense of experimentation.

    For instance, this iteration of my personal portfolio site (” the pseudoroom” ) from that time was experimental if not a little overt in terms of visualizing how the idea of a living sketchbook was conveyed. Quite skeuomorphic. This one involved sketching and then passing a Photoshop file back and forth to experiment with various customer interactions with fellow artist and dear companion Marc Clancy, who is now a co-founder of the creative task organizing app Milanote. Finally, I’d break it down and protocol it into a modern layout.

    Along with pattern book pieces, the site even offered free downloads for Mac OS customizations: desktop wallpapers that were successfully design experimentation, custom-designed typefaces, and desktop icons.

    GUI Galaxy was a design, pixel art, and Mac-centric news portal that graphic designer friends and I developed from the beginning.

    Design news portals were incredibly popular at the time, and they now accept tweet-sized, small-format excerpts from relevant news from the categories I previously covered. If you took Twitter, curated it to a few categories, and wrapped it in a custom-branded experience, you’d have a design news portal from the late 90s / early 2000s.

    We as designers had changed and developed a bandwidth-sensitive, award-winning, much more accessibility-conscious website. Still ripe with experimentation, yet more mindful of equitable engagement. There are a few content panes here, with both Mac-focused news and general news (tech, design ) to be seen. We also offered many of the custom downloads I cited before as present on my folio site but branded and themed to GUI Galaxy.

    The presentation layer, which included global design, illustration, and news author collaboration, was the backbone of the website. And the collaboration effort here, in addition to experimentation on a’ brand’ and content delivery, was hitting my core. We were creating a global audience by creating something bigger than just one of us.

    Collaboration and connection transcend medium in their impact, immensely fulfilling me as a designer.

    Why am I going down this design memory lane with you, now? Two reasons.

    First of all, there’s a reason for the nostalgia for the” Wild West” era of design that so many personal portfolio and design portals sprang from the past. Ultra-finely detailed pixel art UI, custom illustration, bespoke vector graphics, all underpinned by a strong design community.

    The web design industry has experienced a period of stagnation in recent years. I suspect there’s a strong chance you’ve seen a site whose structure looks something like this: a hero image / banner with text overlaid, perhaps with a lovely rotating carousel of images ( laying the snark on heavy there ), a call to action, and three columns of sub-content directly beneath. Perhaps an icon library is used with selections that only vaguely relate to their respective content is used.

    Design, as it’s applied to the digital landscape, is in dire need of thoughtful layout, typography, and visual engagement that goes hand-in-hand with all the modern considerations we now know are paramount: usability. accessibility. Load times and bandwidth- sensitive content delivery. A user-friendly presentation that connects with people wherever they are. We must be mindful of, and respectful toward, those concerns—but not at the expense of creativity of visual communication or via replicating cookie-cutter layouts.

    Pixel Issues

    Websites during this period were often designed and built on Macs whose OS and desktops looked something like this. Although this is Mac OS 7.5, 8 and 9 aren’t all that different.

    How could any single icon, at any point, stand out and grab my attention, fascinated me? In this example, the user’s desktop is tidy, but think of a more realistic example with icon pandemonium. How did it maintain cohesion among the group, for example, if an icon was a part of a larger system grouping ( fonts, extensions, control panels )?

    These were 32 x 32 pixel creations, utilizing a 256-color palette, designed pixel-by-pixel as mini mosaics. Under such absurd constraints, this seemed to me to be the embodiment of digital visual communication. And often, ridiculous restrictions can yield the purification of concept and theme.

    So I started to research and do my homework. I was a student of this new medium, hungry to dissect, process, discover, and make it my own.

    I wanted to see how I could push the boundaries of a 32×32 pixel grid with that 256-color palette, expanding upon the idea of exploration. Those ridiculous constraints forced a clarity of concept and presentation that I found incredibly appealing. The challenge of throwing the digital gauntlet had been thrown at me. And so, in my dorm room into the wee hours of the morning, I toiled away, bringing conceptual sketches into mini mosaic fruition.

    These are some of my creations that made use of ResEdit, the only program I had at the time, to create icons. ResEdit was a clunky, built-in Mac OS utility not really made for exactly what we were using it for. Research is at the center of all of this endeavor. Challenge. Problem-solving Again, these core connection-based values are agnostic of medium.

    There’s one more design portal I want to talk about, which also serves as the second reason for my story to bring this all together.

    Kaliber 1000 is short for K10k. K10k was founded in 1998 by Michael Schmidt and Toke Nygaard, and was the design news portal on the web during this period. With its pixel art-fueled presentation, attention to detail paid to every aspect of every detail, and many of the more well-known designers of the time who were invited to be news authors on the site, well… it was the place to be, my friend. With respect where respect is due, GUI Galaxy’s concept was inspired by what these folks were doing.

    For my part, the combination of my web design work and pixel art exploration began to get me some notoriety in the design scene. K10k eventually added me as one of their very select group of news writers to the website’s content.

    Amongst my personal work and side projects —and now with this inclusion—in the design community, this put me on the map. My design work has also begun to appear on other design news portals, as well as in publications abroad and domestically as well as in various printed collections. With that degree of success while in my early twenties, something else happened:

    I really changed into a colossal asshole in just about a year of school, not less. The press and the praise became what fulfilled me, and they went straight to my head. My ego was inflated by them. I actually felt somewhat superior to my fellow designers.

    The victims? My design stagnated. My evolution has stagnated, as is its evolution.

    I felt so supremely confident in my abilities that I effectively stopped researching and discovering. When I used to lead myself to iterate through concepts or sketches, I leaped right into Photoshop. I drew my inspiration from the smallest of sources ( and with blinders on ). My peers frequently vehemently disapproved of any criticism of my work. The most tragic loss: I had lost touch with my values.

    My ego almost destroyed some of my friendships and blossoming professional relationships. I was toxic in talking about design and in collaboration. But thankfully, candor was a gift from those same friends. They called me out on my unhealthy behavior.

    It was a gift I initially did not accept but which I, on the whole, was able to reflect on in depth. I was soon able to accept, and process, and course correct. Although the realization made me feel uneasy, the re-awakening was necessary. I let go of the “reward” of adulation and re-centered upon what stoked the fire for me in art school. Most importantly, I returned to my fundamental values.

    Always Students

    Following that temporary decline, my personal and professional design journey advanced. And I could self-reflect as I got older to facilitate further growth and course correction as needed.

    Let’s use the Large Hadron Collider as an example. The LHC was designed” to help answer some of the fundamental open questions in physics, which concern the basic laws governing the interactions and forces among the elementary objects, the deep structure of space and time, and in particular the interrelation between quantum mechanics and general relativity”. Thank you, Wikipedia.

    Around fifteen years ago, in one of my earlier professional roles, I designed the interface for the application that generated the LHC’s particle collision diagrams. These diagrams are the depiction of what is actually happening inside the Collider during any given particle collision event and are frequently regarded as works of art by themselves.

    Designing the interface for this application was a fascinating process for me, in that I worked with Fermilab physicists to understand what the application was trying to achieve, but also how the physicists themselves would be using it. In order to accomplish this, in this role,

    I cut my teeth on usability testing, working with the Fermilab team to iterate and improve the interface. To me, how they spoke and what they talked about was like an alien tongue. And by making myself humble and working under the mindset that I was but a student, I made myself available to be a part of their world to generate that vital connection.

    I also had my first ethnographic observational experience, where I observed how the physicists used the tool in their own environments, on their own terminals. For example, one takeaway was that due to the level of ambient light-driven contrast within the facility, the data columns ended up using white text on a dark gray background instead of black text-on-white. This made it easier for them to pore over a lot of data during the day and lessen their strain on their eyes. And Fermilab and CERN are government entities with rigorous accessibility standards, so my knowledge in that realm also grew. Another crucial form of communication was the barrier-free design.

    So to those core drivers of my visual problem-solving soul and ultimate fulfillment: discovery, exposure to new media, observation, human connection, and evolution. Before I entered those values, I had to check my ego before entering it, which opened the door to those values.

    An evergreen willingness to listen, learn, understand, grow, evolve, and connect yields our best work. I want to pay attention to the words “grow” and “evolve” in that statement in particular. If we are always students of our craft, we are also continually making ourselves available to evolve. Yes, we have years of practical design experience behind us. Or the focused lab sessions from a UX bootcamp. Or the monogrammed portfolio of our work. Or, ultimately, decades of a career behind us.

    However, remember that “experience” does not equate to “expert.”

    As soon as we close our minds via an inner monologue of’ knowing it all’ or branding ourselves a” #thoughtleader” on social media, the designer we are is our final form. There will never be a designer like us.

  • User Research Is Storytelling

    User Research Is Storytelling

    I’ve been fascinated by movies since I was a child. I loved the heroes and the excitement—but most of all the reports. I aspired to be an artist. And I believed that I’d get to do the things that Indiana Jones did and go on fascinating experiences. I also came up with concept movies that my friends and I could render and sun in. But they never went any farther. However, I did end up in the user experience ( UX) field. Today, I realize that there’s an element of drama to UX— I hadn’t actually considered it before, but consumer research is story. And you must show a compelling story to entice stakeholders, such as the product team and decision-makers, to learn more in order to get the most out of consumer research.

    Think of your favourite film. It more than likely follows a three-act construction that’s frequently seen in movies: the installation, the conflict, and the resolution. The second act shows what exists now, and it helps you get to know the figures and the challenges and problems that they face. Act two sets the scene for the fight and introduces the behavior. Here, difficulties grow or get worse. The solution comes in the third and final action. This is where the issues are resolved and the figures learn and change. This structure, in my opinion, is also a fantastic way to think about customer research, and it might be particularly useful for explaining user research to others.

    Use story as a framework for conducting analysis

    It’s sad to say, but many have come to see studies as being dispensable. Research is typically one of the first things to go when expenses or deadlines are tight. Instead of investing in study, some goods professionals rely on manufacturers or—worse—their personal judgment to make the “right” options for users based on their experience or accepted best practices. That might lead to some clubs getting in the way, but it’s too easy to overlook the real issues facing users. To be user-centered, this is something we really avoid. Design is enhanced by customer research. It keeps it on record, pointing to problems and opportunities. Being aware of problems with your goods and taking corrective actions can help you be ahead of your competition.

    In the three-act structure, each action corresponds to a part of the process, and each part is important to telling the whole story. Let’s examine the various functions and how they relate to consumer analysis.

    Act one: installation

    Fundamental analysis comes in handy because the layout is all about comprehending the background. Basic research ( also called conceptual, discovery, or original research ) helps you understand people and identify their problems. Like in the movies, you’re learning about the problems users face, what options are available, and how they are affected by them. To do basic research, you may conduct cultural inquiries or journal studies ( or both! ), which may assist you in identifying both challenges and options. It doesn’t need to get a great investment in time or money.

    Erika Hall writes about the most effective anthropology, which can be as straightforward as spending 15 hours with a customer and asking them to” Walk me through your morning yesterday.” That’s it. Current that one ask. Opened up and listen to them for 15 days. Do everything in your power to protect both your objectives and yourself. Bam, you’re doing ethnography”. According to Hall, “[This ] will probably prove quite fascinating. In the very unlikely event that you didn’t learn anything new or helpful, carry on with increased confidence in your way”.

    This makes perfect sense to me. And I love that this makes consumer research so visible. You can simply attract participants and carry out the recruitment process without having to make a lot of paperwork! This can offer a wealth of knowledge about your customers, and it’ll help you better understand them and what’s going on in their life. That’s exactly what work one is all about: understanding where people are coming from.

    Maybe Spool talks about the importance of basic research and how it really type the bulk of your research. If you can supplement what you’ve heard in the fundamental studies by using any more user data that you can obtain, such as surveys or analytics, or if you can identify areas that need more investigation. Together, all this information creates a clearer picture of the state of things and all its deficiencies. And that’s the start of a gripping tale. It’s the place in the story where you realize that the principal characters—or the people in this case—are facing issues that they need to conquer. This is where you begin to develop compassion for the characters and support their success, much like in films. And finally participants are now doing the same. Their concern may be with their company, which could be losing money because people are unable to complete specific tasks. Or probably they do connect with customers ‘ problems. In either case, action one serves as your main strategy to pique the interest and interest of the participants.

    When partners begin to understand the value of basic research, that is open doors to more opportunities that involve users in the decision-making approach. And that can help item team become more user-centric. This gains everyone—users, the goods, and partners. It’s similar to winning an Oscar for a film because it frequently results in a favorable and productive outcome for your item. And this can be an opportunity for participants to repeat this process with different items. The secret to this approach is storytelling, and knowing how to tell a compelling story is the only way to entice partners to do more research.

    This brings us to work two, where you incrementally review a design or idea to see whether it addresses the problems.

    Act two: issue

    Act two is all about digging deeper into the problems that you identified in operate one. This typically involves conducting vertical study, such as accessibility tests, where you evaluate a potential solution ( such as a design ) to see if it addresses the problems you identified. The issues may include unfulfilled needs or problems with a circulation or procedure that’s tripping users off. More issues may come up in the process, much like in act two of a movie. It’s here that you learn more about the figures as they grow and develop through this work.

    Usability tests should generally consist of five participants, according to Jakob Nielsen, who found that that number of users can usually identify the majority of the issues:” As you add more and more users, you learn less and less because you will keep seeing the same things again and again… After the second user, you are wasting your time by observing the same findings regularly but hardly learning much new.”

    There are parallels with storytelling here too, if you try to tell a story with too many characters, the plot may get lost. With fewer participants, each user’s struggles will be more memorable and accessible to other parties when presenting the research. This can help convey the issues that need to be addressed while also highlighting the value of doing the research in the first place.

    Usability tests have been conducted in person for tens of thousands of years, but remote testing can also be done using software like Microsoft Teams, Zoom, or other teleconferencing tools. This approach has become increasingly popular since the beginning of the pandemic, and it works well. You might consider in-person usability tests like attending a play and remote sessions as more of a movie watching experience. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. Usability research in person is a much more valuable learning experience. Stakeholders can experience the sessions with other stakeholders. Additionally, you’ll also hear their reactions in real-time, including surprises, disagreements, and discussions of what they’re seeing. Much like going to a play, where audiences get to take in the stage, the costumes, the lighting, and the actors ‘ interactions, in-person research lets you see users up close, including their body language, how they interact with the moderator, and how the scene is set up.

    If conducting usability testing in the field is like watching a play that is staged and controlled, where any two sessions may be very different from one another. You can take usability testing into the field by creating a replica of the space where users interact with the product and then conduct your research there. Or you can meet users at their location to conduct your research. With either option, you get to see how things work in context, things come up that wouldn’t have in a lab environment—and conversion can shift in entirely different directions. You have less control over how these sessions end as researchers, but this can occasionally help you understand users even better. Meeting users where they are can provide clues to the external forces that could be affecting how they use your product. In-person usability tests add a level of detail that remote usability tests frequently lack.

    That’s not to say that the “movies” —remote sessions—aren’t a good option. Remote training sessions can reach a wider audience. They allow a lot more stakeholders to be involved in the research and to see what’s going on. Additionally, they make access to a much wider user base geographically. But with any remote session there is the potential of time wasted if participants can’t log in or get their microphone working.

    The advantage of usability testing, whether conducted remotely or in person, is that you can ask real users questions to understand their reasoning and understanding of the problem. This can help you not only identify problems but also glean why they’re problems in the first place. You can also test your own ideas and determine whether they are true. By the end of the sessions, you’ll have a much clearer picture of how usable the designs are and whether they work for their intended purposes. The excitement is in the second act, but there are also potential surprises in the third. This is equally true of usability tests. Unexpected things that participants say frequently alter the way you look at things, and these unexpected revelations can lead to unexpected turns in the narrative.

    Unfortunately, user research is sometimes seen as expendable. Usability testing is also frequently the only research technique that some stakeholders believe they ever need, and too frequently. In fact, if the designs that you’re evaluating in the usability test aren’t grounded in a solid understanding of your users ( foundational research ), there’s not much to be gained by doing usability testing in the first place. That’s because you’re narrowing down the area of focus on without considering the needs of the users. As a result, there’s no way of knowing whether the designs might solve a problem that users have. In the context of a usability test, it’s only feedback on a particular design.

    On the other hand, if you only do foundational research, while you might have set out to solve the right problem, you won’t know whether the thing that you’re building will actually solve that. This demonstrates the value of conducting both directional and foundational research.

    In act two, stakeholders will—hopefully—get to watch the story unfold in the user sessions, which creates the conflict and tension in the current design by surfacing their highs and lows. And in turn, this can encourage stakeholders to take action on the issues raised.

    Act three: resolution

    The third act is about resolving the issues raised by the first two acts, whereas the first two are about comprehending the context and the tensions that can compel action. While it’s important to have an audience for the first two acts, it’s crucial that they stick around for the final act. That includes all members of the product team, including developers, UX experts, business analysts, delivery managers, product managers, and any other interested parties. It allows the whole team to hear users ‘ feedback together, ask questions, and discuss what’s possible within the project’s constraints. And it gives the UX design and research teams more time to clarify, suggest alternatives, or provide more context for their choices. So you can get everyone on the same page and get agreement on the way forward.

    This act is primarily told in voiceover with some audience participation. The researcher is the narrator, who paints a picture of the issues and what the future of the product could look like given the things that the team has learned. They offer the stakeholders their suggestions and suggestions for how to create this vision.

    Nancy Duarte in the Harvard Business Review offers an approach to structuring presentations that follow a persuasive story. The most effective presenters employ the same methods as great storytellers: By reaffirming the status quo and then revealing a better way, they create a conflict that needs to be resolved, writes Duarte. ” That tension helps them persuade the audience to adopt a new mindset or behave differently”.

    This type of structure aligns well with research results, and particularly results from usability tests. It provides proof for “what is “—the issues you’ve identified. And “what could be “—your recommendations on how to address them. And so forth.

    You can reinforce your recommendations with examples of things that competitors are doing that could address these issues or with examples where competitors are gaining an edge. Or they can be visual, like quick sketches of how a new design could look that solves a problem. These can help generate conversation and momentum. And this continues until the session is over when you’ve concluded by bridging the gaps and offering suggestions for improvement. This is the part where you reiterate the main themes or problems and what they mean for the product—the denouement of the story. The stakeholders will now have the opportunity to take the next steps, and hopefully the will-power to do so!

    While we are nearly at the end of this story, let’s reflect on the idea that user research is storytelling. The three-act structure of user research contains all the components for a good story:

      Act one: You meet the protagonists ( the users ) and the antagonists ( the problems affecting users ). The plot begins here. In act one, researchers might use methods including contextual inquiry, ethnography, diary studies, surveys, and analytics. These techniques can produce personas, empathy maps, user journeys, and analytics dashboards.
      Act two: Next, there’s character development. The protagonists face problems and difficulties, which they must overcome, and there is conflict and tension. In act two, researchers might use methods including usability testing, competitive benchmarking, and heuristics evaluation. Usability findings reports, UX strategy documents, usability guidelines, and best practices can be included in the output of these.
      Act three: The protagonists triumph and you see what a better future looks like. Researchers may use techniques like presentation decks, storytelling, and digital media in act three. The output of these can be: presentation decks, video clips, audio clips, and pictures.

    The researcher plays a variety of roles, including producer, director, and storyteller. The participants have a small role, but they are significant characters ( in the research ). And the audience are the stakeholders. But the most important thing is to get the story right and to use storytelling to tell users ‘ stories through research. By the end, the parties should leave with a goal and an eagerness to address the product’s flaws.

    So the next time that you’re planning research with clients or you’re speaking to stakeholders about research that you’ve done, think about how you can weave in some storytelling. In the end, user research is beneficial for everyone, and all you need to do is pique stakeholders ‘ interest in how the story ends.

  • To Ignite a Personalization Practice, Run this Prepersonalization Workshop

    To Ignite a Personalization Practice, Run this Prepersonalization Workshop

    Image this. You’ve joined a club at your business that’s designing innovative product features with an focus on technology or AI. Or perhaps your business only started using a personalization engine. Either way, you’re designing with information. What’s next? When it comes to designing for personalization, there are many warning stories, no immediately achievement, and some guidelines for the baffled.

    The personalization space is real, between the dream of getting it right and the worry of it going wrong ( like when we encounter “persofails” similar to a company’s constant plea to regular people to purchase additional bathroom seats ). It’s an particularly confusing place to be a modern professional without a map, a map, or a strategy.

    There are no Lonely Planet and some tour guides for those of you who want to personalize because successful personalization depends so much on each group’s talent, technology, and market position.

    But you can ensure that your group has packed its bags rationally.

    There’s a DIY method to increase your chances for victory. You’ll at least at least disarm your boss ‘ irrational exuberance. Before the group you’ll need to properly plan.

    We refer to it as prepersonalization.

    Behind the song

    Take into account the DJ have on Spotify, which was introduced last month.

    We’re used to seeing the polished final outcome of a personalization have. A personal have had to be conceived, budgeted, and prioritized before the year-end prize, the making-of-backstory, or the behind-the-scenes success chest. Before any customisation have goes live in your product or service, it lives amid a delay of valuable ideas for expressing consumer experiences more automatically.

    How do you decide where to position personalisation wagers? How do you design regular interactions that hasn’t journey up users or—worse—breed mistrust? We’ve discovered that several budgeted programs second required one or more workshops to join key stakeholders and domestic customers of the technology in order to justify their continuous investments. Create it count.

    We’ve closely observed the same evolution with our consumers, from major software to young companies. In our experience with working on small and large personalization work, a program’s best monitor record—and its capacity to weather tough questions, work steadily toward shared answers, and manage its design and engineering efforts—turns on how successfully these prepersonalization activities play out.

    Effective workshops consistently separate successful future endeavors from unsuccessful ones, saving countless hours of time, resources, and overall well-being.

    A personalization practice involves a multiyear effort of testing and feature development. Your tech stack is not experiencing a switch-flip. It’s best managed as a backlog that often evolves through three steps:

    1. customer experience optimization ( CXO, also known as A/B testing or experimentation )
    2. always-on automations ( whether rules-based or machine-generated )
    3. mature features or standalone product development ( such as Spotify’s DJ experience )?

    This is why we created our progressive personalization framework and why we’re field-testing an accompanying deck of cards: we believe that there’s a base grammar, a set of “nouns and verbs” that your organization can use to design experiences that are customized, personalized, or automated. These cards are not necessary for you. But we strongly recommend that you create something similar, whether that might be digital or physical.

    Set the timer for the kitchen.

    How long does it take to cook up a prepersonalization workshop? The activities we suggest including during the assessment can ( and frequently do ) last for weeks. For the core workshop, we recommend aiming for two to three days. Details on the essential first-day activities are included in a summary of our broad approach.

    The full arc of the wider workshop is threefold:

      Kickstart: This specifies the terms of engagement as you concentrate on both the potential and the team’s and leadership’s readiness and drive.
    1. Plan your work: This is the heart of the card-based workshop activities where you specify a plan of attack and the scope of work.
    2. Work your plan: This stage consists of making it possible for team members to individually present their own pilots, which each include a proof-of-concept project, business case, and operating model.

    Give yourself at least a day, split into two large time blocks, to power through a concentrated version of those first two phases.

    Kickstart: Apt your appetite

    We call the first lesson the “landscape of connected experience“. It looks at the possibilities for personalization in your organization. A connected experience, in our parlance, is any UX requiring the orchestration of multiple systems of record on the backend. This might be a marketing-automation platform combined with a content-management system. It could be a digital-asset manager combined with a customer-data platform.

    Give examples of connected experience interactions that you admire, find familiar, or even dislike, as examples of consumer and business-to-business examples. This should cover a representative range of personalization patterns, including automated app-based interactions ( such as onboarding sequences or wizards ), notifications, and recommenders. These cards contain a catalog, which we have. Here’s a list of 142 different interactions to jog your thinking.

    It’s all about setting the tone. What are the possible paths for the practice in your organization? Here’s a long-form primer and a strategic framework for a broader perspective.

    Assess each example that you discuss for its complexity and the level of effort that you estimate that it would take for your team to deliver that feature ( or something similar ). In our cards, we break down connected experiences into five categories: functions, features, experiences, complete products, and portfolios. Size your own build here. This will help to draw attention to both the benefits of ongoing investment and the difference between what you currently offer and what you intend to deliver in the future.

    Next, have your team plot each idea on the following 2×2 grid, which lays out the four enduring arguments for a personalized experience. This is crucial because it emphasizes how personalization can affect your own ways of working as well as your external customers. It’s also a reminder ( which is why we used the word argument earlier ) of the broader effort beyond these tactical interventions.

    Each team member should decide where their focus should be placed for your product or service. Naturally, you can’t prioritize all of them. Here, the goal is to show how various departments may view their own benefits from the effort, which can vary from one department to the next. Documenting your desired outcomes lets you know how the team internally aligns across representatives from different departments or functional areas.

    The third and final KickStart activity is about filling in the personalization gap. Is your customer journey well documented? Will ensuring data and privacy is a major challenge too much? Do you have content metadata needs that you have to address? ( We’re pretty sure you do; it’s just a matter of recognizing the need’s magnitude and its solution. ) In our cards, we’ve noted a number of program risks, including common team dispositions. For instance, our Detractor card lists six protracted behavior that is harmful to the development of our country.

    Effectively collaborating and managing expectations is critical to your success. Consider the potential obstacles to your upcoming progress. Press the participants to name specific steps to overcome or mitigate those barriers in your organization. According to research, personalization initiatives face a number of common obstacles.

    At this point, you’ve hopefully discussed sample interactions, emphasized a key area of benefit, and flagged key gaps? You’re all set to go on, good.

    Hit that test kitchen

    Next, let’s take a look at what you’ll need to create personalization recipes. Personalization engines, which are robust software suites for automating and expressing dynamic content, can intimidate new customers. They give you a variety of options for how your organization can conduct its activities because of their broad and potent capabilities. This presents the question: Where do you begin when you’re configuring a connected experience?

    The key here is to avoid treating the installed software ( as one of our client executives humorously put it ) like some sort of dream kitchen. These software engines are more like test kitchens where your team can begin devising, tasting, and refining the snacks and meals that will become a part of your personalization program’s regularly evolving menu.

    Over the course of the workshop, the ultimate menu of the prioritized backlog will come together. And creating “dishes” is the way that you’ll have individual team stakeholders construct personalized interactions that serve their needs or the needs of others.

    Recipes have ingredients in them, and those recipes have ingredients.

    Verify your ingredients

    Like a good product manager, you’ll make sure you have everything ready to cook up your desired interaction ( or figure out what needs to be added to your pantry ) and that you validate with the right stakeholders present. These ingredients include the audience that you’re targeting, content and design elements, the context for the interaction, and your measure for how it’ll come together.

    This doesn’t just involve identifying requirements. Documenting your personalizations as a series of if-then statements lets the team:

    1. compare findings to a common strategy for developing features, similar to how artists paint with the same color palette,
    2. specify a consistent set of interactions that users find uniform or familiar,
    3. and establish parity between all important performance indicators and performance metrics.

    This helps you streamline your designs and your technical efforts while you deliver a shared palette of core motifs of your personalized or automated experience.

    Create a recipe.

    What ingredients are important to you? Consider the construct “what-what-when-why”

    • Who are your key audience segments or groups?
    • What content, what design elements, and under what circumstances will you give them?
    • And for which business and user benefits?

    Five years ago, we created these cards and card categories. We regularly play-test their fit with conference audiences and clients. And there are still fresh possibilities. But they all follow an underlying who-what-when-why logic.

    In the cards in the accompanying photo below, you can typically follow along with right to left in three examples of subscription-based reading apps.

    1. Nurture personalization: When a guest or an unknown visitor interacts with a product title, a banner or alert bar appears that makes it easier for them to encounter a related title they may want to read, saving them time.
    2. Welcome automation: An email is sent to a newly registered user to highlight the breadth of the content catalog and convert them to happy subscribers.
    3. Winback automation: Before their subscription lapses or after a recent failed renewal, a user is sent an email that gives them a promotional offer to suggest that they reconsider renewing or to remind them to renew.

    We’ve also found that sometimes this process comes together more effectively by cocreating the recipes themselves, so a good preworkshop activity might be to think about what these cards might be for your organization. Start with a set of blank cards, and begin labeling and grouping them through the design process, eventually distilling them to a refined subset of highly useful candidate cards.

    The workshop’s later stages could be characterized as shifting from focusing on a cookbook to a more nuanced customer-journey mapping. Individual” cooks” will pitch their recipes to the team, using a common jobs-to-be-done format so that measurability and results are baked in, and from there, the resulting collection will be prioritized for finished design and delivery to production.

    Architecture must be improved to produce better kitchens.

    Simplifying a customer experience is a complicated effort for those who are inside delivering it. Beware of anyone who contradicts your advice. With that being said,” Complicated problems can be hard to solve, but they are addressable with rules and recipes“.

    When a team is overfitting, it’s because they aren’t designing with their best data, which is why personalization turns into a laugh line. Like a sparse pantry, every organization has metadata debt to go along with its technical debt, and this creates a drag on personalization effectiveness. For instance, your AI’s output quality is in fact impacted by your IA. Spotify’s poster-child prowess today was unfathomable before they acquired a seemingly modest metadata startup that now powers its underlying information architecture.

    You can’t stand the heat, in fact…

    Personalization technology opens a doorway into a confounding ocean of possible designs. Only a disciplined and highly collaborative approach can achieve the necessary concentration and intention. So banish the dream kitchen. Instead, head to the test kitchen to burn off the fantastical ideas that the doers in your organization have in store for time, to preserve job satisfaction and security, and to avoid unnecessary distractions. There are meals to serve and mouths to feed.

    This framework of the workshop gives you a strong chance at long-term success as well as solid ground. Wiring up your information layer isn’t an overnight affair. However, if you use the same cookbook and the same recipe combination, you’ll have solid ground for success. We designed these activities to make your organization’s needs concrete and clear, long before the hazards pile up.

    Your time well spent is being able to assess your unique situation and digital skills, despite the associated costs associated with investing in this kind of technology and product design. Don’t squander it. The pudding is the proof, as they say.

  • The Wax and the Wane of the Web

    The Wax and the Wane of the Web

    When you begin to believe you have everything figured out, everyone does change, in my opinion. Simply as you start to get the hang of injections, diapers, and ordinary sleep, it’s time for solid foods, potty training, and nighttime sleep. When you figure those over, it’s time for some short breaks for nap and school. The cycle goes on and on.

    The same holds true for those of us who are currently employed in design and development. Having worked on the web for about three years at this point, I’ve seen the typical wax and wane of concepts, strategies, and systems. Every day we as developers and designers re-enter a routine pattern, a brand-new concept or technology emerges to shake things up and completely alter our world.

    How we got below

    I built my first website in the mid-’90s. Design and development on the web back then was a free-for-all, with few established norms. For any layout aside from a single column, we used table elements, often with empty cells containing a single pixel spacer GIF to add empty space. We styled text with numerous font tags, nesting the tags every time we wanted to vary the font style. And we had only three or four typefaces to choose from: Arial, Courier, or Times New Roman. When Verdana and Georgia came out in 1996, we rejoiced because our options had nearly doubled. The only safe colors to choose from were the 216 “web safe” colors known to work across platforms. The few interactive elements (like contact forms, guest books, and counters) were mostly powered by CGI scripts (predominantly written in Perl at the time). Achieving any kind of unique look involved a pile of hacks all the way down. Interaction was often limited to specific pages in a site.

    the development of internet requirements

    At the turn of the century, a new cycle started. Crufty code littered with table layouts and font tags waned, and a push for web standards waxed. Newer technologies like CSS got more widespread adoption by browsers makers, developers, and designers. This shift toward standards didn’t happen accidentally or overnight. It took active engagement between the W3C and browser vendors and heavy evangelism from folks like the Web Standards Project to build standards. A List Apart and books like Designing with Web Standards by Jeffrey Zeldman played key roles in teaching developers and designers why standards are important, how to implement them, and how to sell them to their organizations. And approaches like progressive enhancement introduced the idea that content should be available for all browsers—with additional enhancements available for more advanced browsers. Meanwhile, sites like the CSS Zen Garden showcased just how powerful and versatile CSS can be when combined with a solid semantic HTML structure.

    Server-side language like PHP, Java, and.NET took Perl as the primary back-end computers, and the cgi-bin was tossed in the garbage bin. With these improved server-side software, the first period of internet programs started with content-management methods (especially those used in blogs like Blogger, Grey Matter, Movable Type, and WordPress ) In the mid-2000s, AJAX opened gates for sequential interaction between the front end and back finish. Websites now no longer needed to refresh their webpages ‘ content. A grain of Script frameworks like Prototype, YUI, and ruby arose to aid developers develop more credible client-side interaction across browsers that had wildly varying levels of standards support. Techniques like image replacement enable skilled designers and developers to display fonts of their choosing. And technologies like Flash made it possible to add animations, games, and even more interactivity.

    These new methods, standards, and technologies greatly reenergized the sector. Web design flourished as designers and developers explored more diverse styles and layouts. However, we still relied on numerous hacks. Early CSS was a huge improvement over table-based layouts when it came to basic layout and text styling, but its limitations at the time meant that designers and developers still relied heavily on images for complex shapes ( such as rounded or angled corners ) and tiled backgrounds for the appearance of full-length columns (among other hacks ). All kinds of nested floats or absolute positioning ( or both ) were necessary for complicated layouts. Flash and image replacement for custom fonts was a great start toward varying the typefaces from the big five, but both hacks introduced accessibility and performance problems. Additionally, JavaScript libraries made it simple to add a dash of interaction to pages without having to spend the money to double or even quadruple the download size for basic websites.

    The web as software platform

    The balance between the front end and the back end continued to improve, leading to the development of the current web application era. Between expanded server-side programming languages ( which kept growing to include Ruby, Python, Go, and others ) and newer front-end tools like React, Vue, and Angular, we could build fully capable software on the web. Along with these tools, there were additional options, such as shared package libraries, build automation, and collaborative version control. What was once primarily an environment for linked documents became a realm of infinite possibilities.

    Mobile devices increased in their capabilities as well, and they gave us access to the internet while we were traveling. Mobile apps and responsive design opened up opportunities for new interactions anywhere and any time.

    The development of social media and other centralized tools for people to connect and use resulted from this combination of potent mobile devices and potent development tools. As it became easier and more common to connect with others directly on Twitter, Facebook, and even Slack, the desire for hosted personal sites waned. Social media provided connections on a global scale, with both the positive and negative effects.

    Want a much more extensive history of how we got here, with some other takes on ways that we can improve? ” Of Time and the Web” was written by Jeremy Keith. Or check out the” Web Design History Timeline” at the Web Design Museum. A fun tour through” Internet Artifacts” is also provided by Neal Agarwal.

    Where we are now

    It seems like we’ve reached yet another significant turning point in recent years. As social-media platforms fracture and wane, there’s been a growing interest in owning our own content again. There are many different ways to create websites, from the tried-and-true classic of hosting plain HTML files to static site generators to content management systems of all kinds. The fracturing of social media also comes with a cost: we lose crucial infrastructure for discovery and connection. Webmentions, RSS, ActivityPub, and other IndieWeb tools can be useful in this regard, but they’re still largely underdeveloped and difficult to use for the less geeky. We can build amazing personal websites and add to them regularly, but without discovery and connection, it can sometimes feel like we may as well be shouting into the void.

    Browser support for CSS, JavaScript, and other web components has increased, particularly with initiatives like Interop. New technologies gain support across the board in a fraction of the time that they used to. I frequently find out about a new feature and check its browser support only to discover that its coverage is already over 80 %. Nowadays, the barrier to using newer techniques often isn’t browser support but simply the limits of how quickly designers and developers can learn what’s available and how to adopt it.

    We can prototype almost any idea today with just a few commands and a few lines of code. All the tools that we now have available make it easier than ever to start something new. However, the upfront cost these frameworks may save in initial delivery eventually comes down as the maintenance and upgrading they become a part of our technical debt.

    If we rely on third-party frameworks, adopting new standards can sometimes take longer since we may have to wait for those frameworks to adopt those standards. These frameworks, which once made it easier to adopt new techniques sooner, have since evolved into obstacles. These same frameworks often come with performance costs too, forcing users to wait for scripts to load before they can read or interact with pages. And when scripts fail ( whether due to poor code, network issues, or other environmental factors ), there is frequently no other option, leaving users with blank or broken pages.

    Where do we go from here?

    Hacks of today help to shape standards for the future. And there’s nothing inherently wrong with embracing hacks —for now—to move the present forward. Problems only arise when we refuse to acknowledge that they are hacks or when we refuse to take their place. So what can we do to create the future we want for the web?

    Build for the long haul. Optimize for performance, for accessibility, and for the user. weigh the costs of those user-friendly tools. They may make your job a little easier today, but how do they affect everything else? What is the price to the users? To future developers? To adoption of standards? Sometimes the convenience may be worth it. It’s occasionally just a hack that you’ve gotten used to. And sometimes it’s holding you back from even better options.

    Start with the basics. Standards continue to evolve over time, but browsers have done a remarkably good job of continuing to support older standards. The same holds true for third-party frameworks, though. Sites built with even the hackiest of HTML from the’ 90s still work just fine today. Even after a few years, the same can’t be said about websites created with frameworks.

    Design with care. Consider the effects of each choice, whether your craft is code, pixels, or processes. The convenience of many a modern tool comes at the cost of not always understanding the underlying decisions that have led to its design and not always considering the impact that those decisions can have. Use the time saved by modern tools to think more carefully and make decisions with care rather than rushing to “move fast and break things”

    Always be learning. If you constantly learn, you also develop. Sometimes it may be hard to pinpoint what’s worth learning and what’s just today’s hack. Even if you were to concentrate solely on learning standards, you might end up focusing on something that won’t matter next year. ( Remember XHTML? ) However, ongoing learning opens up new neural connections in your brain, and the techniques you learn in one day may be used to inform different experiments in the future.

    Play, experiment, and be weird! This website we created is the most incredible experiment. It’s the single largest human endeavor in history, and yet each of us can create our own pocket within it. Be brave and make new friends. Build a playground for ideas. Create absurd experiments in your own crazy science lab. Start your own small business. There is no better place for being more creative, risk-taking, and expressing our creativity.

    Share and amplify. Share what you think has worked for you as you experiment, play, and learn. Write on your own website, post on whichever social media site you prefer, or shout it from a TikTok. Write something for A List Apart! But take the time to amplify others too: find new voices, learn from them, and share what they’ve taught you.

    Go ahead and create.

    As designers and developers for the web ( and beyond ), we’re responsible for building the future every day, whether that may take the shape of personal websites, social media tools used by billions, or anything in between. Let’s incorporate our values into the products we produce, and let’s improve the world for everyone. Create that thing that only you are uniquely qualified to make. Then share it, improve it, re-use it, or create something new. Learn. Make. Share. grow. Rinse and repeat. Everything will change whenever you believe you have the ability to use the internet.

  • The Secret Weapon of Great Brands

    The Secret Weapon of Great Brands

    The Secret Weapon of Great Brands written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

    Listen to the full episode: Overview In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, John Jantsch interviews Laura Ries, globally recognized branding strategist, bestselling author, and president of Ries & Ries. Laura shares insights from her new book, “The Strategic Enemy: How to Build and Position a Brand Worth Fighting For.” The conversation explores […]

    The Secret Weapon of Great Brands written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

    Listen to the full episode:

    Overview

    In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, John Jantsch interviews Laura Ries, globally recognized branding strategist, bestselling author, and president of Ries & Ries. Laura shares insights from her new book, “The Strategic Enemy: How to Build and Position a Brand Worth Fighting For.” The conversation explores why brands need a focused enemy, how to find and define it, and how legendary brands—from Liquid Death to Tesla—win by creating real contrast and bold positioning. Laura breaks down her proven framework for entrepreneurs and established businesses alike, showing why focus, differentiation, and a compelling “enemy” are the keys to winning the battle for the mind.

    About the Guest

    Laura Ries is a globally recognized branding strategist, bestselling author, and president of Ries & Ries. Together with her father, Al Ries, Laura has helped Fortune 500s and ambitious startups win through bold, focused brand positioning. She’s a sought-after speaker, trusted advisor, and author of “The Strategic Enemy,” a book that helps brands of any size build a message—and a business—worth fighting for.

    Actionable Insights

    • A strategic enemy isn’t just a competitor; it’s a problem, category, or alternative that provides contrast and focus.
    • Brands without focus have no enemy—and without an enemy, they lack meaning and energy in the market.
    • The enemy can be a product feature (plastic bottles), an outdated process (taxis), or simply “the way it’s always been done.”
    • Great positioning starts with knowing who you are for—and who you are not for.
    • Legendary brands like Liquid Death, Uber, Oatly, and Tesla win by breaking category conventions and boldly defining what they’re against.
    • The first step for any brand: narrow your focus, say “no” to what you’re not, and stake out a clear enemy to create differentiation.
    • Entrepreneurs and challengers have an edge—they can outmaneuver larger brands by focusing on a single idea and exploiting big company weaknesses.
    • Visual hammers and clear metaphors make positioning “stick” (think: Liquid Death, White Claw, or even the Duct Tape Marketing brand itself).
    • Beware of “foe enemies”—don’t invent rivals that aren’t real. Your enemy must be genuine, tangible, and tied to customer pain or desire.
    • Big brands can stay relevant by launching new brands to attack new categories (instead of extending old ones).

    Great Moments (with Timestamps)

    • 02:39 – Strategic Enemy vs. Competitor
      Laura explains why brands need a contrast, not just a list of rivals.
    • 03:08 – Liquid Death, Uber, and the Power of Defining the Enemy
      How bold brands win by naming and attacking what they’re against.
    • 04:36 – The Enemy as Problem, Not Just a Company
      Positioning can be about fighting a pain or outdated alternative.
    • 05:57 – Why Brands Without Focus Lack Energy
      The risk of trying to be everything to everyone.
    • 07:55 – Focus First: Who You’re For, and Who You’re Not
      The role of clarity and saying “no” in setting up your enemy.
    • 08:53 – Category Over Brand: Why Tesla and Red Bull Won
      How owning a category and pioneering a new idea creates leadership.
    • 12:14 – Entrepreneur Advantage: The Power of Courage and Focus
      Why challengers can outmaneuver incumbents with sharper positioning.
    • 16:22 – Multiple Brands Beat Line Extensions
      Big brands should create new brands to fight new battles.
    • 18:04 – Subcategories and Visual Hammers
      Why new subcategories (like hard seltzer or nonalcoholic beer) and visual metaphors drive market momentum.
    • 20:31 – The Danger of “Foe Enemies”
      Laura cautions against inventing fake rivals—your enemy must be real.
    • 22:29 – Making Positioning Visual and Memorable
      The power of metaphors, visual hammers, and simple storytelling.

    Pulled Quotes

    “Brands without enemies are brands without energy. Focus first, then pick the enemy that brings your brand to life.”
    — Laura Ries

    “Legendary brands win by creating real contrast—fighting a problem, a category, or the ‘way it’s always been done.’”
    — Laura Ries

    John Jantsch (00:01.144)

    Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch and my guest today is Laura Ries. She’s a globally recognized branding strategist, bestselling author and president of Reiss and Reiss, the firm she runs with her father, legendary positioning pioneer Al Reiss. Laura’s guided Fortune 500 companies and fast growing startups alike on how to win the battle in the mind through bold, focused brand positioning. We’re going to talk today about her latest book,

    the strategic enemy, how to build and position a brand worth fighting for. So Laura, welcome back to the show.

    Laura Ries (00:37.082)

    Well, thanks so much. It’s a pleasure to be here. And to see you again.

    John Jantsch (00:40.586)

    Likewise. And you know, there are very few people I can say this to, but you know, when I was just getting started, father’s book was very instrumental read for me as well. I’m sure you’ve heard that more than once.

    Laura Ries (00:55.45)

    and it was a very instrumental book for me as well. It’s what got me here, got me interested in falling in love with positioning. so it’s such a pleasure to have had the chance to work with him for so many years.

    John Jantsch (01:09.13)

    And as you and I have talked before, my daughter actually is our CEO and has worked with me for 15 years. it’s kind of that, you know, it’s funny people who maybe haven’t done that before, you know, have a lot of questions about like, how does that work? So I’m curious for you. I mean, for us, it’s been great. We have a great personal relationship. don’t take that. I mean, we do take it into business because I trust her at a level that I don’t think I would ever trust anyone else in business.

    and things of that nature, you know, doesn’t, some of the drama that people are used to, just, we’ve never experienced it as that. I get the sense that you’re probably in that same boat.

    Laura Ries (01:48.6)

    Yeah, no, you do have that long-term trust and you’re in it for the long haul for your family, you hope. And so that longevity and history and all that you bring into it. But yeah, you do have to love what you do. I think that’s the most important thing. I love positioning. wasn’t that I just, my dad was cool, right? But I also really enjoyed, I loved learning from him. And then of course, I enjoyed to teach him a few tricks as well too.

    John Jantsch (02:03.853)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (02:09.23)

    you

    John Jantsch (02:15.874)

    Yeah, of course you wouldn’t stick around if I wouldn’t think if you loved it. It’s a grind. be. So you got to have some passion for it. So let’s jump right into the book. One of my first questions, I think I know, well, I know the answer to this, but I want you to clarify. How would you differentiate between a strategic enemy and say a competitor?

    Laura Ries (02:39.652)

    companies have lots of competitors. Right? So that’s the reality. But a strategic enemy is strategic in terms of it’s very important in your strategy. It’s always important to understand the enemy. But like I said, there’s many, but you want to pick that one. And the most important thing is you want to show what the contrast is. And so that is, for example, you have Liquid Death, right? One of the hottest new water brands. They pick not other water brands, but

    John Jantsch (02:41.506)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (03:04.663)

    Right.

    Laura Ries (03:08.634)

    Plastic water bottles as the enemy death to plastics is their slogan So they said no to something they didn’t offer it in plastic and they very pointedly said that you know We are killing the earth with plastic aluminum is much more infinitely recyclable and sadly We don’t even recycle much plastic anymore even though they can be so very important message and of course they have

    brilliant snazzy marketing along with it, but it is backed by something very specific, very tangible, and very much a difference from the enemy that they have set up. Another is, for example, Uber. The original name was ubercab.com, if you remember back in the day.

    John Jantsch (03:45.449)

    funny. No, I actually don’t know that I knew that one.

    Laura Ries (03:49.262)

    Yeah, no, I didn’t either, but you know, I do my research on these books. if you have a name like Uber cab, how can taxis be the enemy? The strongest thing to rally consumers for your cause is not so much to say, you know, come with us, we’re great, but let’s fight somebody else. Let’s fight those taxi cabs out there and we have a better way. Our way is that new category, which is always the best way to build a brand. And that was, you know, Uber with the ride sharing.

    John Jantsch (03:51.502)

    Right.

    John Jantsch (04:07.661)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (04:18.124)

    You know, it’s really interesting because I’m sure most people’s minds go to the enemy being like, you know, the, people that beat you out, you know, for, whatever, you know, work that you get. And as I listened to you to this, it’s probably in some ways the enemy can just be a problem that your ideal client is facing. Right.

    Laura Ries (04:36.314)

    Absolutely. like I say, it’s not evil corp is the enemy, right? That it’s a really big bad guy or thing or something out there. It is, yeah, two things, either a problem that you’re going to solve or just the alternative. There’s not just one way to do something. mean, think about mouthwash. Listerine, it’s medicine breath is what Scope said because they were selling good tasting mouthwash. But, know, Listerine, the fact that taste you hate twice a day, I mean, that

    John Jantsch (04:40.526)

    Right.

    Laura Ries (05:04.505)

    Talk to the efficacy. mean, it was very strong. That’s what was killing all the germs. So there’s two sides of every coin. And that’s the important part of strategy and of thinking about positioning in a way that it’s not just what we are, but what is the contrasting alternative that puts us in a better light? And there’s always multiple ways to look at things. I mean, some people like regular cow’s milk. It’s delicious. But then you have Oatly coming in with, wow, no cow, and selling, you know, this is milk for humans, you know, made from oats.

    John Jantsch (05:34.904)

    So it’s, it’s all, well, I shouldn’t say it almost. is, I mean, you’re a really key point of this book is you’re saying that brands need to actually maybe go looking for this enemy, find it, right? I mean, not necessarily make it up, but like without it, you even go as far as what was your statement or your brands without enemies or brands without energy that, that, that we actually need to go find this thing, right?

    Laura Ries (05:49.818)

    That’s right.

    Laura Ries (05:57.518)

    without meaning and here’s the biggest problem is most companies aren’t focused enough to have an enemy. They do too many things in too many markets and try to appeal to too many people. When you do that, you don’t have a focus and without a focus, you don’t have an enemy. So sometimes the first thing is looking at yourself and saying, what can we say no to? If you say no to something that tends to put you in a direction where you can find an enemy. What did Southwest do? They said no to first class being the coach class only.

    John Jantsch (06:16.92)

    Yeah.

    Laura Ries (06:26.99)

    that was, you know, they had more affordable seating. They also made the whole, you know, theme of the airline being about fun and games and they, you know, the stewardesses and airline attendants would make jokes and crack jokes. But, you know, you can’t crack jokes if you got a first class and a curtain and then us back in the coach, right? So that focus can very much help you define what your identity is and position against what that, you know, enemy you have put out there. And, companies too often get in trouble because

    John Jantsch (06:45.006)

    You

    Laura Ries (06:56.332)

    What is Southwest doing today? They’re adding first class and premium seating. All of that is going to undermine the bags don’t fly. And here’s the thing, seat assignments, I’m all for. That’s going to get rid of the chaos. But bags not flying free, that was something that they could anchor their brand on and say, everybody else is charging for bags, but here bags fly free. And listen.

    John Jantsch (06:58.647)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (07:02.254)

    Charging for bags.

    Laura Ries (07:21.71)

    That has an operational efficiency too, because if the bags fly free, people will check them. And then you could board the plane. Otherwise, everyone’s carrying all their bags on with them and that slows down everything. So it is very sad when companies lose their focus and we’re trying to fight that fight to help them stay focused.

    John Jantsch (07:26.606)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (07:40.952)

    So sounds like I hear you saying that really the first step too is that as you said, you’ve got to know who you are first before you can go out there and find the enemy maybe. But in a lot of ways, it probably starts with narrowing your focus, right? Here’s who we’re for. So here’s who we’re not for. It’s probably step one, isn’t it?

    Laura Ries (07:55.801)

    Absolutely.

    That’s right. Yeah, it’s a balance between knowing who you are, what you can say no to. But at the end of the day, focus has always been the key critical element of positioning itself. And the enemy is line extension, going in too many directions, diluting what your brand is. And when companies do focus, then they can make use of that strategic enemy. And it’s creating the contrast of the peak

    people can better understand because listen, people don’t have time. We’ve got to make these communications very simple, very clear so that people understand and also understand the choice. For example, you’ve got edible arrangements, which now goes by edible, which I don’t always shorten your name because edible today has a very different connotation. That’s not what they’re selling. There you go. That’s not what they’re selling.

    John Jantsch (08:48.11)

    I live in Colorado and it’s, you know, it’s…

    Laura Ries (08:53.418)

    They are selling edible fruit arrangements, which has a fantastic strategic enemy. Why buy flowers that will die, right? When you can send a delicious edible bouquet. But edible arrangements as a name is very, very strong. But again, it’s the category that really matters because people care more about the category than they do about brands. I hate to tell you.

    But while they speak in brands, we think, people love a Tesla. No, they don’t love the Tesla brand. It’s the category that they dominate, which is EV electric vehicles, the category that is booming right now. And people still buy them despite what they think of Elon Musk and all of his shenanigans. But very strong brand that did absolutely do many of the things we preach about, being first in pioneering a category and only focusing on EVs, which here’s the problem.

    Originally, this was a tiny market. The major automobile makers, they thought it was niche and they ignored it for many, many years. And that allowed Tesla to get in, not so much build the market initially, but build the mind of the consumer that Tesla was the car that stood for it. So, you can take advantage of the big companies are slow on these things. Another one was Red Bull. Coca-Cola ignored Red Bull for years until after 10 years, it was a hundred million dollars and they woke up and said, oops,

    But when they competed late, you know, it was too late to the game. Full throttle, tab energy, all of the others they try to launch were big losers. The brand that pioneers it, particularly when they do it with a good name, a good strategy, and a strong message, you know, it gives you wings if you didn’t know.

    John Jantsch (10:21.816)

    Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

    John Jantsch (10:32.878)

    A lot of those big companies just go out and buy the competition that’s nipping at their heels.

    Laura Ries (10:38.874)

    Well, that’s not a bad idea. if you’ve got the money, I mean, today, what has Coca-Cola done? They can’t launch their, they even tried Coca-Cola energy, if you could believe that. But they have made, you know, they put a stake into Monster, which is the only brand that has successfully competed against Red Bull. And today, it’s a very strong leader globally in the energy drink market. How did they do it? They didn’t copy Red Bull. They didn’t try to be better. They came at a 16 ounce can. Now, is that better? Who knows? It’s different.

    John Jantsch (10:46.54)

    Ha ha.

    John Jantsch (11:04.28)

    Yeah.

    Laura Ries (11:06.81)

    And it’s visually different and not only that they combined it with a great name a simple visual hammer the green claw They’ve got you know monster motocross and truck events and all sorts of things They’ve they’ve utilized that strategy to unify their anchor as to what they stand for against their competitor Red Bull But how do you compete with that? Well, the big number three today is Celsius They’re hot in the energy drink market by not going the masculine male approach as you know what?

    mostly Red Bull and Monster have done, but it’s a more unisex, fitness friendly, no sugar, and they’ve taken on a very good chunk of the market by going and being different.

    John Jantsch (11:49.166)

    So we’re talking about big brands essentially right now, but you’ve developed a framework that is really quarter the book. Do you want to kind of walk us through some of the steps? And like, have you walked into a company and let’s put the big brands aside? You walked into a company that is kind of trying to make their way now and trying to, know, what are kind of some of the steps you would take somebody through? And again, obviously I didn’t give you a type of company or anything, but typically.

    Laura Ries (12:14.186)

    No, well, I mean, you’ve got tons of examples and listen, I love working with entrepreneurs. I mean, that is actually the most exciting. They have such creative new ideas and potential. And not only that, most importantly, they have the courage and the balls to really do something different, something that the big companies usually don’t have. For example, in the moist toilet paper market, the early pioneers were, know, cottonel fresh wipes, which never really went anywhere because it had a, you

    It was cottonel, Kleenex, fresh wipes, something or other. They were trying to position a dual, you need two things, you need wet and dry, which never really resonated until one guy was living in a post-college apartment with a bunch of dudes eating, as he says, lots of burritos, drinking late nights, and they needed some heavy duty cleaning up in the bathroom. So on his weekly trip to Costco, he picked up the usual, baby wipes and a bunch of other stuff that the guys like to use, and he said, wait a minute,

    John Jantsch (12:51.982)

    Yeah. Yeah.

    Laura Ries (13:12.974)

    Why isn’t there a company that makes a product I want to use that’s meant for me and my guy friends and cleans up like a baby wipe does, but is also flushable and environmentally friendly? And he did that. He just pioneered that category. It’s called Dude Wipes. It has over $350 million a year, but it was just a guy with an idea. But first and foremost, he saw a problem, right? It didn’t create the category, but he said everyone is not doing it in the right way. They’re not focused and they’re not strongly

    John Jantsch (13:36.034)

    Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    Laura Ries (13:42.97)

    calling out an enemy. I Cottonelle can’t say, you know, dry toilet paper sucks, but Dude Wipes can. Dude Wipes says, you’re wasting your time with that. You’re just smearing it around. I mean, they say all sorts of crazy things, but a very powerful message by narrowing the focus, by taking on the enemy. And, you know, going in with entrepreneurs, it is so exciting because you can really take on the big guys.

    John Jantsch (13:50.03)

    Right, right. Yeah

    John Jantsch (14:08.835)

    Yeah.

    Laura Ries (14:09.058)

    You don’t have to be a big guy because you leverage where they’re weak and in every strength there is always some kind of weakness. Even in Amazon, if you can believe it, a bunch of entrepreneurs launched Shopify and they said, you know, Amazon is not really serving the merchants, right? They’re all about the customer and they do such a great job on that. But they’re kind of given the short shaft to the merchant. So, know, Shopify is the merchant hero. They’re setting it up so merchants can have their own stores.

    John Jantsch (14:26.7)

    Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

    Laura Ries (14:37.976)

    making it totally seamless, easy to do, giving them all the tools, support they need, and they’ve been a very strong competitor to helping companies sell their goods on the internet.

    John Jantsch (14:48.616)

    And of course their connected network has now made them even more powerful.

    Laura Ries (14:52.186)

    It took time, literally it was just a bunch of guys who tried to sell their own website and said, instead of, was it surfing stuff? I can’t remember. But instead of selling this, mean, they gave that up quick and said, we’re just gonna sell the software, the backbone of this. And they added incrementally all the other things and bells and whistles that went along with it. But it’s that key one idea.

    John Jantsch (14:56.77)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (15:07.308)

    Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    Laura Ries (15:16.762)

    Airbnb was the same way. mean, it was, you know, a bunch of guys living in San Francisco that said, wait a minute, you know, it hot periods of conferences, it’s impossible and very costly to get a hotel. Why don’t we put some air mattresses in our living room? We’re going to call it air bread and breakfast and rent out the room. And, you know, today they are they are taking on hotels in a big way.

    John Jantsch (15:35.15)

    funny.

    John Jantsch (15:40.686)

    Oh yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. In fact, you’re seeing some hotels actually now try to get into that business a little bit, you know, to, instead of just having their rooms, you know, actually buying houses and things to, get into that business. Yeah. Yeah.

    Laura Ries (15:53.302)

    Is that the right idea? Because listen, I’ve stayed in an Airbnb, I’ve stayed in a hotel, there’s advantages to hotels. I kind of like the fresh towels and the very clean sheets and the service that goes along with it. I mean, there’s no one way to do something. Instead of thinking about how can we copy Airbnb, how can we make hotels a better deal? And celebrate what is a very nice experience in a hotel.

    John Jantsch (16:09.581)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (16:13.102)

    Sure.

    Yeah, yeah,

    Laura Ries (16:22.66)

    Here’s the other thing. The best thing you can do as a big company or when you get to that size, if you’re an entrepreneur listening, is multiple brands. Give birth to your own enemy is a better strategy. Not trying to put one brand on many things, instead having multiple brands. And you see even great examples. So Mike’s Hard Lemonade was a big, big success at the turn of the century.

    John Jantsch (16:44.386)

    Yep.

    Laura Ries (16:46.87)

    As kids were turning away, young drinking adults were turning away from beer and other things. They enjoyed the Mike’s Hard Lemonade. But as a few years went by, we realized it had just as much sugar as a Coke almost and a ton of calories and we all were cutting carbs. So what did they do? Instead of line extending Mike’s into, well, they also did that honestly, into Mike’s Light Lemonade, they launched White Claw.

    John Jantsch (17:00.194)

    Yeah.

    Laura Ries (17:15.994)

    the first hard seltzer and this is the typhoon of seltzers of billions of dollars. And listen, it doesn’t even taste very good, but it is a new category. And as a hard seltzer, that again, naming the category is incredibly important. Zima, mean, you’re as old as I am, you know it, remember Zima, they didn’t know what it was. What was it?

    John Jantsch (17:16.035)

    Mm.

    John Jantsch (17:26.626)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (17:35.884)

    Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do.

    Laura Ries (17:41.562)

    I mean, it was similar to, you know, again, what White Claw is selling, but, they didn’t quite name the category and explain to us what it is. And when we don’t know what something is, doesn’t always taste very good. And that was one of the experiences of the Zemas.

    John Jantsch (17:44.77)

    Yeah, yeah.

    John Jantsch (17:57.72)

    Yeah, that seltzer category is probably booming like beer, my craft beer was at one point.

    Laura Ries (18:04.428)

    Absolutely. And not only that, there’s a huge, there’s always opportunity out there, which is what makes marketing and business and entrepreneur so exciting. You think, like, I never thought there could be another water brand. I mean, how many hundreds of water brands? And then came Liquid Death. And you thought like beer, how many beer brands? But have you heard of this athletic brewing?

    This is the hottest new thing. It’s beer without alcohol. What fun is that? But anyway, there’s a big trend into drinking less. And do you really want to drink a Heineken Zero or a Bud Zero? I mean, come on. But this new brand owns the category and celebrates it and says, you know, live an athletic lifestyle.

    John Jantsch (18:39.918)

    You

    Laura Ries (18:47.466)

    no hangovers. And one of the things they did as an important part of the strategy is they knew they needed credibility, that this was something that was not just non-alcoholic. mean, there was O’Doul’s and kind of other brands out there, but it was a good tasting quality beer. And so they aggressively entered it into competitions. And that drove a lot of the PR. In fact, one of the competitions, they beat beer with alcohol. And they have just a great way of talking about it.

    John Jantsch (18:59.159)

    Mm-hmm, right.

    John Jantsch (19:05.998)

    Mmm.

    John Jantsch (19:11.426)

    Yeah.

    Laura Ries (19:16.442)

    pointing out that enemy which is, know, why bother with the alcohol? Why not live for a better tomorrow?

    John Jantsch (19:21.91)

    Well, it’s interesting because they created a subcategory, non-alcoholic beer that tastes good, because I think the category was there’s non-alcoholic beer, right? That was the category. So if they got lumped into that category, they probably weren’t going to go anywhere. They’re not going to fight. didn’t has their brush, probably. So I think they kind of…

    Laura Ries (19:29.338)

    That’s right. Yeah.

    Laura Ries (19:37.562)

    No. Yeah, not being a line extension and not trying to look like a beer. The other thing they did that was very brilliant and visuals matter, visuals are incredibly important. Athletic only comes in cans. All of the other brands, of course they offer it, but they promote the glass because they feel it looks premium and it does.

    But athletic, I mean, what’s their position? mean, athletic lifestyles, you can’t bring gas, a glass bottle on a camping trip or a boat. need the can. And the can in bright pastel colors was a distinctive difference that also communicated how different they were than all the other products.

    John Jantsch (20:05.752)

    Right, right, yeah.

    John Jantsch (20:16.012)

    Yeah. So I want to end with a, know, because I think a lot of people listening right now are getting very fired up about their who, how they’re going to go out there and create their enemy. What’s the risk of creating you call foe enemies? I mean, just kind of like making them up.

    Laura Ries (20:23.322)

    I hope so.

    Laura Ries (20:31.802)

    you can’t make them up. Of course they do. course they… No, the rivalry has to be real. But it doesn’t have to be something, for example, I’ve got a phone case, it’s called Flaunt. What’s their big difference? It’s a square case.

    John Jantsch (20:33.166)

    But certainly people try, right? I mean, it’s like, it’s like, here’s our rivalry, but it’s like, they really? Yeah, yeah.

    Laura Ries (20:53.562)

    And that’s an instantly visible difference, but they promote that as you know, they’re they’re positioning their difference, you know, what makes them great and I love a square case. It looks cool. It’s fun. I stick my iPhone in there. But yeah, that absolutely it has to be not just you know, claiming a boogeyman out there as the enemy but something that that is real. That’s a tangible problem a tangible enemy and there’s always more than ways

    John Jantsch (20:53.964)

    Yeah.

    Laura Ries (21:18.358)

    more than one way to do something. mean, sometimes you want the very best, right? A high price can be a benefit, but sometimes, you know, also the ease of and the shopping experience, for example, going to Costco. People love Costco. Even the Kirkland brand is rising, right? Because people are saying they’re making a statement and the companies focus on producing very high quality and also, you know, the ease of not over, you know, there’s only 4,000 items. It really makes it much easier to choose when there’s

    John Jantsch (21:33.88)

    Yeah.

    Laura Ries (21:46.82)

    fewer things to choose from.

    John Jantsch (21:48.046)

    That’s funny because, course, not every brand, not every everybody’s going to like every brand. I don’t like Costco. I think it’s a terrible shopping experience. I go in there and I can’t find anything.

    Laura Ries (21:54.901)

    See you.

    Laura Ries (21:58.97)

    Well, you know they do that on purpose because they want you to wander the aisles and see I love the discovery of it But that’s the point there is no one and here’s the problem Most companies like Kmart, right? They’re trying to appeal to everyone They want people that you know want the the bulk kind of Costco They want people that want the simple shopping or they try to be everything It’s much better to take a very narrow stance and not worry if it doesn’t appeal to everybody

    John Jantsch (22:05.068)

    Yeah. Yeah.

    John Jantsch (22:27.062)

    I did love a good blue light special though. You got to admit that was amazing.

    Laura Ries (22:29.018)

    It was a visual idea. See, if you can give your strategy some way to visualize it, it makes it much more powerful. mean, think about duct tape. I mean, what a great way to communicate something that’s instantly understand in the mind. We know what we do with duct tape. We know how great duct tape is. It can fix anything. what a, know, using metaphors like that are a great way to do branding.

    John Jantsch (22:41.112)

    Right?

    John Jantsch (22:47.288)

    Yep. Yeah.

    John Jantsch (22:55.382)

    Awesome. Well, Laura, I appreciate you taking a few moments to drop by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. Where would you invite people to connect with you and find out more, certainly about strategic enemy, but also your courses and the things that you do around it?

    Laura Ries (23:01.274)

    Absolutely. Well, of course you can visit us online at reese.com and that’s r i e s dot com. We’ve got strategicenemy.com and I’ve just launched a sub stack. Yay. Exciting newsletters. I’ve got even the Reese hotline where companies are calling in. Well, it’s fake. Don’t tell anybody, but I pretend like companies are coming in and I give them really great advice. So check out those videos, check out my book and let’s do positioning together and nail those strategic enemies.

    John Jantsch (23:23.118)

    You

    John Jantsch (23:34.211)

    Well, again, appreciate you stopping by and hopefully we’ll run into you on these days soon out there on the road.

    Laura Ries (23:38.852)

    Absolutely.

    powered by

  • An Holistic Framework for Shared Design Leadership

    An Holistic Framework for Shared Design Leadership

    Picture this: You’re in a meeting room at your tech company, and two people are having what looks like the same conversation about the same design problem. One is talking about whether the team has the right skills to tackle it. The other is diving deep into whether the solution actually solves the user’s problem. Same room, same problem, completely different lenses.

    This is the beautiful, sometimes messy reality of having both a Design Manager and a Lead Designer on the same team. And if you’re wondering how to make this work without creating confusion, overlap, or the dreaded “too many cooks” scenario, you’re asking the right question.

    The traditional answer has been to draw clean lines on an org chart. The Design Manager handles people, the Lead Designer handles craft. Problem solved, right? Except clean org charts are fantasy. In reality, both roles care deeply about team health, design quality, and shipping great work. 

    The magic happens when you embrace the overlap instead of fighting it—when you start thinking of your design org as a design organism.

    The Anatomy of a Healthy Design Team

    Here’s what I’ve learned from years of being on both sides of this equation: think of your design team as a living organism. The Design Manager tends to the mind (the psychological safety, the career growth, the team dynamics). The Lead Designer tends to the body (the craft skills, the design standards, the hands-on work that ships to users).

    But just like mind and body aren’t completely separate systems, so, too, do these roles overlap in important ways. You can’t have a healthy person without both working in harmony. The trick is knowing where those overlaps are and how to navigate them gracefully.

    When we look at how healthy teams actually function, three critical systems emerge. Each requires both roles to work together, but with one taking primary responsibility for keeping that system strong.

    The Nervous System: People & Psychology

    Primary caretaker: Design Manager
    Supporting role: Lead Designer

    The nervous system is all about signals, feedback, and psychological safety. When this system is healthy, information flows freely, people feel safe to take risks, and the team can adapt quickly to new challenges.

    The Design Manager is the primary caretaker here. They’re monitoring the team’s psychological pulse, ensuring feedback loops are healthy, and creating the conditions for people to grow. They’re hosting career conversations, managing workload, and making sure no one burns out.

    But the Lead Designer plays a crucial supporting role. They’re providing sensory input about craft development needs, spotting when someone’s design skills are stagnating, and helping identify growth opportunities that the Design Manager might miss.

    Design Manager tends to:

    • Career conversations and growth planning
    • Team psychological safety and dynamics
    • Workload management and resource allocation
    • Performance reviews and feedback systems
    • Creating learning opportunities

    Lead Designer supports by:

    • Providing craft-specific feedback on team member development
    • Identifying design skill gaps and growth opportunities
    • Offering design mentorship and guidance
    • Signaling when team members are ready for more complex challenges

    The Muscular System: Craft & Execution

    Primary caretaker: Lead Designer
    Supporting role: Design Manager

    The muscular system is about strength, coordination, and skill development. When this system is healthy, the team can execute complex design work with precision, maintain consistent quality, and adapt their craft to new challenges.

    The Lead Designer is the primary caretaker here. They’re setting design standards, providing craft coaching, and ensuring that shipping work meets the quality bar. They’re the ones who can tell you if a design decision is sound or if we’re solving the right problem.

    But the Design Manager plays a crucial supporting role. They’re ensuring the team has the resources and support to do their best craft work, like proper nutrition and recovery time for an athlete.

    Lead Designer tends to:

    • Definition of design standards and system usage
    • Feedback on what design work meets the standard
    • Experience direction for the product
    • Design decisions and product-wide alignment
    • Innovation and craft advancement

    Design Manager supports by:

    • Ensuring design standards are understood and adopted across the team
    • Confirming experience direction is being followed
    • Supporting practices and systems that scale without bottlenecking
    • Facilitating design alignment across teams
    • Providing resources and removing obstacles to great craft work

    The Circulatory System: Strategy & Flow

    Shared caretakers: Both Design Manager and Lead Designer

    The circulatory system is about how information, decisions, and energy flow through the team. When this system is healthy, strategic direction is clear, priorities are aligned, and the team can respond quickly to new opportunities or challenges.

    This is where true partnership happens. Both roles are responsible for keeping the circulation strong, but they’re bringing different perspectives to the table.

    Lead Designer contributes:

    • User needs are met by the product
    • Overall product quality and experience
    • Strategic design initiatives
    • Research-based user needs for each initiative

    Design Manager contributes:

    • Communication to team and stakeholders
    • Stakeholder management and alignment
    • Cross-functional team accountability
    • Strategic business initiatives

    Both collaborate on:

    • Co-creation of strategy with leadership
    • Team goals and prioritization approach
    • Organizational structure decisions
    • Success measures and frameworks

    Keeping the Organism Healthy

    The key to making this partnership sing is understanding that all three systems need to work together. A team with great craft skills but poor psychological safety will burn out. A team with great culture but weak craft execution will ship mediocre work. A team with both but poor strategic circulation will work hard on the wrong things.

    Be Explicit About Which System You’re Tending

    When you’re in a meeting about a design problem, it helps to acknowledge which system you’re primarily focused on. “I’m thinking about this from a team capacity perspective” (nervous system) or “I’m looking at this through the lens of user needs” (muscular system) gives everyone context for your input.

    This isn’t about staying in your lane. It’s about being transparent as to which lens you’re using, so the other person knows how to best add their perspective.

    Create Healthy Feedback Loops

    The most successful partnerships I’ve seen establish clear feedback loops between the systems:

    Nervous system signals to muscular system: “The team is struggling with confidence in their design skills” → Lead Designer provides more craft coaching and clearer standards.

    Muscular system signals to nervous system: “The team’s craft skills are advancing faster than their project complexity” → Design Manager finds more challenging growth opportunities.

    Both systems signal to circulatory system: “We’re seeing patterns in team health and craft development that suggest we need to adjust our strategic priorities.”

    Handle Handoffs Gracefully

    The most critical moments in this partnership are when something moves from one system to another. This might be when a design standard (muscular system) needs to be rolled out across the team (nervous system), or when a strategic initiative (circulatory system) needs specific craft execution (muscular system).

    Make these transitions explicit. “I’ve defined the new component standards. Can you help me think through how to get the team up to speed?” or “We’ve agreed on this strategic direction. I’m going to focus on the specific user experience approach from here.”

    Stay Curious, Not Territorial

    The Design Manager who never thinks about craft, or the Lead Designer who never considers team dynamics, is like a doctor who only looks at one body system. Great design leadership requires both people to care about the whole organism, even when they’re not the primary caretaker.

    This means asking questions rather than making assumptions. “What do you think about the team’s craft development in this area?” or “How do you see this impacting team morale and workload?” keeps both perspectives active in every decision.

    When the Organism Gets Sick

    Even with clear roles, this partnership can go sideways. Here are the most common failure modes I’ve seen:

    System Isolation

    The Design Manager focuses only on the nervous system and ignores craft development. The Lead Designer focuses only on the muscular system and ignores team dynamics. Both people retreat to their comfort zones and stop collaborating.

    The symptoms: Team members get mixed messages, work quality suffers, morale drops.

    The treatment: Reconnect around shared outcomes. What are you both trying to achieve? Usually it’s great design work that ships on time from a healthy team. Figure out how both systems serve that goal.

    Poor Circulation

    Strategic direction is unclear, priorities keep shifting, and neither role is taking responsibility for keeping information flowing.

    The symptoms: Team members are confused about priorities, work gets duplicated or dropped, deadlines are missed.

    The treatment: Explicitly assign responsibility for circulation. Who’s communicating what to whom? How often? What’s the feedback loop?

    Autoimmune Response

    One person feels threatened by the other’s expertise. The Design Manager thinks the Lead Designer is undermining their authority. The Lead Designer thinks the Design Manager doesn’t understand craft.

    The symptoms: Defensive behavior, territorial disputes, team members caught in the middle.

    The treatment: Remember that you’re both caretakers of the same organism. When one system fails, the whole team suffers. When both systems are healthy, the team thrives.

    The Payoff

    Yes, this model requires more communication. Yes, it requires both people to be secure enough to share responsibility for team health. But the payoff is worth it: better decisions, stronger teams, and design work that’s both excellent and sustainable.

    When both roles are healthy and working well together, you get the best of both worlds: deep craft expertise and strong people leadership. When one person is out sick, on vacation, or overwhelmed, the other can help maintain the team’s health. When a decision requires both the people perspective and the craft perspective, you’ve got both right there in the room.

    Most importantly, the framework scales. As your team grows, you can apply the same system thinking to new challenges. Need to launch a design system? Lead Designer tends to the muscular system (standards and implementation), Design Manager tends to the nervous system (team adoption and change management), and both tend to circulation (communication and stakeholder alignment).

    The Bottom Line

    The relationship between a Design Manager and Lead Designer isn’t about dividing territories. It’s about multiplying impact. When both roles understand they’re tending to different aspects of the same healthy organism, magic happens.

    The mind and body work together. The team gets both the strategic thinking and the craft excellence they need. And most importantly, the work that ships to users benefits from both perspectives.

    So the next time you’re in that meeting room, wondering why two people are talking about the same problem from different angles, remember: you’re watching shared leadership in action. And if it’s working well, both the mind and body of your design team are getting stronger.

  • From Beta to Bedrock: Build Products that Stick.

    From Beta to Bedrock: Build Products that Stick.

    I’ve lost count of the times I’ve watched promising thoughts go from zero to warrior in a few days before failing to deliver within weeks as a product developer for very long.

    Financial items, which is my area of expertise, are no exception. It’s tempting to put as many features at the ceiling as possible and hope someone sticks because people’s true, hard-earned money is on the line, user expectations are high, and a crammed market. However, this strategy is a formula for disaster. Why, you see this:

    The drawbacks of feature-first creation

    It’s simple to get swept up in the enthusiasm of developing innovative features when you start developing a financial product from scratch or are migrating existing client journeys from paper or phone channels to online bank or mobile apps. They may think,” If I may only add one more thing that solves this particular person problem, they’ll enjoy me”! What happens, however, when you eventually encounter a roadblock caused by your safety team? not like it? When a battle-tested film isn’t as well-known as you anticipated, or when it fails due to unforeseen difficulty?

    The concept of Minimum Viable Product ( MVP ) comes into play in this context. Even though Jason Fried doesn’t usually refer to it that way, his podcast Rework and his guide Getting Real frequently address this concept. An MVP is a product that offers only enough significance to your users to keep them interested, but not so much that it becomes difficult to keep up. Although the idea seems simple, it requires a razor-sharp eye, a ruthless edge, and the courage to stand up for your position because it is easy to fall for” the Columbo Effect” when there is always” just one more thing …” to add.

    The issue with most funding apps is that they frequently turn out to be reflections of the company’s internal politics rather than an experience created exclusively for the customer. This implies that the priority is to provide as some features and functionalities as possible to satisfy the requirements and desires of competing internal departments as opposed to a distinct value statement that is focused on what people in the real world actually want. As a result, these products can very quickly became a mixed bag of misleading, related, and finally unhappy customer experiences—a feature salad, you might say.

    The significance of the foundation

    What is a better strategy, then? How can we create products that are user-friendly, stable, and, most importantly, stick?

    The concept of “bedrock” comes into play in this context. The mainstay of your product is really important to users, and Bedrock is that. It serves as the foundation for the fundamental building block that creates value and maintains relevance over time.

    The bedrock has to be in and around the regular servicing journeys in the world of retail banking, which is where I work. People only look at their current account once every blue moon, but they do so daily. They purchase a credit card every year or two, but they at least once a month check their balance and pay their bills.

    The key is in identifying the core tasks that people want to complete and working relentlessly to make them simple, reliable, and trustworthy.

    But how do you reach the foundation? By focusing on the” MVP” approach, giving simplicity precedence, and working incrementally toward a clear value proposition. This entails removing unnecessary features and putting the emphasis on providing genuine value to your users.

    It also requires having some guts, as your coworkers might not always agree with you immediately. And in some cases, it might even mean making it clear to customers that you won’t be coming over to their house and prepare their meal. Sometimes you need to use the sporadic “opinionated user interface design” ( i .e. clunky workaround for edge cases ) to test a concept or to give yourself some more time to work on something more crucial.

    Practical methods for creating financially successful products

    What are the main learnings I’ve made from my own research and experience, then?

    1. What problem are you trying to solve first and foremost with a clear “why”? Whom? Before beginning any construction, make sure your mission is completely clear. Make sure it also aligns with the goals of your business.
    2. Avoid the temptation to add too many features at once by focusing on one, core feature and focusing on getting that right before moving on to something else. Choose one that actually adds value, and work from there.
    3. When it comes to financial products, simplicity is often more important than complexity. Eliminate unnecessary details and concentrate solely on what matters most.
    4. Accept continuous iteration as Bedrock is a dynamic process rather than a fixed destination. Continuously collect user feedback, make improvements to your product, and move toward that foundation.
    5. Stop, look, and listen: You don’t just have to test your product during the delivery process; you must also test it repeatedly in the field. Use it for yourself. A/B tests are run. User feedback on Gatter. Talk to those who use it, and change things up accordingly.

    The foundational paradox

    This is an intriguing paradox: sacrificing some of the potential for short-term growth in favor of long-term stability is at play. But the payoff is worthwhile because products created with a focus on bedrock will outlive and outperform their competitors and provide users with ongoing value over time.

    How do you begin your quest for bedrock, then? Take it slowly. Start by identifying the essential components that your users actually care about. Concentrate on developing and improving a single, potent feature that delivers real value. And most importantly, test constantly because, whatever you think, Abraham Lincoln, Alan Kay, or Peter Drucker are all in the same boat! The best way to foretell the future is to create it, he said.

  • Should You Hire a Fractional CMO? Here’s Who It’s For (and Who It’s Not For)

    Should You Hire a Fractional CMO? Here’s Who It’s For (and Who It’s Not For)

    Should You Hire a Fractional CMO? Here’s Who It’s For (and Who It’s Not For) written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

    After working with thousands of business owners over the last three decades, I can tell you one thing with certainty: the marketing leader you hire, or don’t hire, can make or break your growth. TL;DR A Fractional CMO can be a game-changer for businesses with clear growth objectives, leadership buy-in, and a team ready to […]

    The Secret Weapon of Great Brands written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

    Listen to the full episode:

    Overview

    In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, John Jantsch interviews Laura Ries, globally recognized branding strategist, bestselling author, and president of Ries & Ries. Laura shares insights from her new book, “The Strategic Enemy: How to Build and Position a Brand Worth Fighting For.” The conversation explores why brands need a focused enemy, how to find and define it, and how legendary brands—from Liquid Death to Tesla—win by creating real contrast and bold positioning. Laura breaks down her proven framework for entrepreneurs and established businesses alike, showing why focus, differentiation, and a compelling “enemy” are the keys to winning the battle for the mind.

    About the Guest

    Laura Ries is a globally recognized branding strategist, bestselling author, and president of Ries & Ries. Together with her father, Al Ries, Laura has helped Fortune 500s and ambitious startups win through bold, focused brand positioning. She’s a sought-after speaker, trusted advisor, and author of “The Strategic Enemy,” a book that helps brands of any size build a message—and a business—worth fighting for.

    Actionable Insights

    • A strategic enemy isn’t just a competitor; it’s a problem, category, or alternative that provides contrast and focus.
    • Brands without focus have no enemy—and without an enemy, they lack meaning and energy in the market.
    • The enemy can be a product feature (plastic bottles), an outdated process (taxis), or simply “the way it’s always been done.”
    • Great positioning starts with knowing who you are for—and who you are not for.
    • Legendary brands like Liquid Death, Uber, Oatly, and Tesla win by breaking category conventions and boldly defining what they’re against.
    • The first step for any brand: narrow your focus, say “no” to what you’re not, and stake out a clear enemy to create differentiation.
    • Entrepreneurs and challengers have an edge—they can outmaneuver larger brands by focusing on a single idea and exploiting big company weaknesses.
    • Visual hammers and clear metaphors make positioning “stick” (think: Liquid Death, White Claw, or even the Duct Tape Marketing brand itself).
    • Beware of “foe enemies”—don’t invent rivals that aren’t real. Your enemy must be genuine, tangible, and tied to customer pain or desire.
    • Big brands can stay relevant by launching new brands to attack new categories (instead of extending old ones).

    Great Moments (with Timestamps)

    • 02:39 – Strategic Enemy vs. Competitor
      Laura explains why brands need a contrast, not just a list of rivals.
    • 03:08 – Liquid Death, Uber, and the Power of Defining the Enemy
      How bold brands win by naming and attacking what they’re against.
    • 04:36 – The Enemy as Problem, Not Just a Company
      Positioning can be about fighting a pain or outdated alternative.
    • 05:57 – Why Brands Without Focus Lack Energy
      The risk of trying to be everything to everyone.
    • 07:55 – Focus First: Who You’re For, and Who You’re Not
      The role of clarity and saying “no” in setting up your enemy.
    • 08:53 – Category Over Brand: Why Tesla and Red Bull Won
      How owning a category and pioneering a new idea creates leadership.
    • 12:14 – Entrepreneur Advantage: The Power of Courage and Focus
      Why challengers can outmaneuver incumbents with sharper positioning.
    • 16:22 – Multiple Brands Beat Line Extensions
      Big brands should create new brands to fight new battles.
    • 18:04 – Subcategories and Visual Hammers
      Why new subcategories (like hard seltzer or nonalcoholic beer) and visual metaphors drive market momentum.
    • 20:31 – The Danger of “Foe Enemies”
      Laura cautions against inventing fake rivals—your enemy must be real.
    • 22:29 – Making Positioning Visual and Memorable
      The power of metaphors, visual hammers, and simple storytelling.

    Pulled Quotes

    “Brands without enemies are brands without energy. Focus first, then pick the enemy that brings your brand to life.”
    — Laura Ries

    “Legendary brands win by creating real contrast—fighting a problem, a category, or the ‘way it’s always been done.’”
    — Laura Ries

    John Jantsch (00:01.144)

    Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch and my guest today is Laura Ries. She’s a globally recognized branding strategist, bestselling author and president of Reiss and Reiss, the firm she runs with her father, legendary positioning pioneer Al Reiss. Laura’s guided Fortune 500 companies and fast growing startups alike on how to win the battle in the mind through bold, focused brand positioning. We’re going to talk today about her latest book,

    the strategic enemy, how to build and position a brand worth fighting for. So Laura, welcome back to the show.

    Laura Ries (00:37.082)

    Well, thanks so much. It’s a pleasure to be here. And to see you again.

    John Jantsch (00:40.586)

    Likewise. And you know, there are very few people I can say this to, but you know, when I was just getting started, father’s book was very instrumental read for me as well. I’m sure you’ve heard that more than once.

    Laura Ries (00:55.45)

    and it was a very instrumental book for me as well. It’s what got me here, got me interested in falling in love with positioning. so it’s such a pleasure to have had the chance to work with him for so many years.

    John Jantsch (01:09.13)

    And as you and I have talked before, my daughter actually is our CEO and has worked with me for 15 years. it’s kind of that, you know, it’s funny people who maybe haven’t done that before, you know, have a lot of questions about like, how does that work? So I’m curious for you. I mean, for us, it’s been great. We have a great personal relationship. don’t take that. I mean, we do take it into business because I trust her at a level that I don’t think I would ever trust anyone else in business.

    and things of that nature, you know, doesn’t, some of the drama that people are used to, just, we’ve never experienced it as that. I get the sense that you’re probably in that same boat.

    Laura Ries (01:48.6)

    Yeah, no, you do have that long-term trust and you’re in it for the long haul for your family, you hope. And so that longevity and history and all that you bring into it. But yeah, you do have to love what you do. I think that’s the most important thing. I love positioning. wasn’t that I just, my dad was cool, right? But I also really enjoyed, I loved learning from him. And then of course, I enjoyed to teach him a few tricks as well too.

    John Jantsch (02:03.853)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (02:09.23)

    you

    John Jantsch (02:15.874)

    Yeah, of course you wouldn’t stick around if I wouldn’t think if you loved it. It’s a grind. be. So you got to have some passion for it. So let’s jump right into the book. One of my first questions, I think I know, well, I know the answer to this, but I want you to clarify. How would you differentiate between a strategic enemy and say a competitor?

    Laura Ries (02:39.652)

    companies have lots of competitors. Right? So that’s the reality. But a strategic enemy is strategic in terms of it’s very important in your strategy. It’s always important to understand the enemy. But like I said, there’s many, but you want to pick that one. And the most important thing is you want to show what the contrast is. And so that is, for example, you have Liquid Death, right? One of the hottest new water brands. They pick not other water brands, but

    John Jantsch (02:41.506)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (03:04.663)

    Right.

    Laura Ries (03:08.634)

    Plastic water bottles as the enemy death to plastics is their slogan So they said no to something they didn’t offer it in plastic and they very pointedly said that you know We are killing the earth with plastic aluminum is much more infinitely recyclable and sadly We don’t even recycle much plastic anymore even though they can be so very important message and of course they have

    brilliant snazzy marketing along with it, but it is backed by something very specific, very tangible, and very much a difference from the enemy that they have set up. Another is, for example, Uber. The original name was ubercab.com, if you remember back in the day.

    John Jantsch (03:45.449)

    funny. No, I actually don’t know that I knew that one.

    Laura Ries (03:49.262)

    Yeah, no, I didn’t either, but you know, I do my research on these books. if you have a name like Uber cab, how can taxis be the enemy? The strongest thing to rally consumers for your cause is not so much to say, you know, come with us, we’re great, but let’s fight somebody else. Let’s fight those taxi cabs out there and we have a better way. Our way is that new category, which is always the best way to build a brand. And that was, you know, Uber with the ride sharing.

    John Jantsch (03:51.502)

    Right.

    John Jantsch (04:07.661)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (04:18.124)

    You know, it’s really interesting because I’m sure most people’s minds go to the enemy being like, you know, the, people that beat you out, you know, for, whatever, you know, work that you get. And as I listened to you to this, it’s probably in some ways the enemy can just be a problem that your ideal client is facing. Right.

    Laura Ries (04:36.314)

    Absolutely. like I say, it’s not evil corp is the enemy, right? That it’s a really big bad guy or thing or something out there. It is, yeah, two things, either a problem that you’re going to solve or just the alternative. There’s not just one way to do something. mean, think about mouthwash. Listerine, it’s medicine breath is what Scope said because they were selling good tasting mouthwash. But, know, Listerine, the fact that taste you hate twice a day, I mean, that

    John Jantsch (04:40.526)

    Right.

    Laura Ries (05:04.505)

    Talk to the efficacy. mean, it was very strong. That’s what was killing all the germs. So there’s two sides of every coin. And that’s the important part of strategy and of thinking about positioning in a way that it’s not just what we are, but what is the contrasting alternative that puts us in a better light? And there’s always multiple ways to look at things. I mean, some people like regular cow’s milk. It’s delicious. But then you have Oatly coming in with, wow, no cow, and selling, you know, this is milk for humans, you know, made from oats.

    John Jantsch (05:34.904)

    So it’s, it’s all, well, I shouldn’t say it almost. is, I mean, you’re a really key point of this book is you’re saying that brands need to actually maybe go looking for this enemy, find it, right? I mean, not necessarily make it up, but like without it, you even go as far as what was your statement or your brands without enemies or brands without energy that, that, that we actually need to go find this thing, right?

    Laura Ries (05:49.818)

    That’s right.

    Laura Ries (05:57.518)

    without meaning and here’s the biggest problem is most companies aren’t focused enough to have an enemy. They do too many things in too many markets and try to appeal to too many people. When you do that, you don’t have a focus and without a focus, you don’t have an enemy. So sometimes the first thing is looking at yourself and saying, what can we say no to? If you say no to something that tends to put you in a direction where you can find an enemy. What did Southwest do? They said no to first class being the coach class only.

    John Jantsch (06:16.92)

    Yeah.

    Laura Ries (06:26.99)

    that was, you know, they had more affordable seating. They also made the whole, you know, theme of the airline being about fun and games and they, you know, the stewardesses and airline attendants would make jokes and crack jokes. But, you know, you can’t crack jokes if you got a first class and a curtain and then us back in the coach, right? So that focus can very much help you define what your identity is and position against what that, you know, enemy you have put out there. And, companies too often get in trouble because

    John Jantsch (06:45.006)

    You

    Laura Ries (06:56.332)

    What is Southwest doing today? They’re adding first class and premium seating. All of that is going to undermine the bags don’t fly. And here’s the thing, seat assignments, I’m all for. That’s going to get rid of the chaos. But bags not flying free, that was something that they could anchor their brand on and say, everybody else is charging for bags, but here bags fly free. And listen.

    John Jantsch (06:58.647)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (07:02.254)

    Charging for bags.

    Laura Ries (07:21.71)

    That has an operational efficiency too, because if the bags fly free, people will check them. And then you could board the plane. Otherwise, everyone’s carrying all their bags on with them and that slows down everything. So it is very sad when companies lose their focus and we’re trying to fight that fight to help them stay focused.

    John Jantsch (07:26.606)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (07:40.952)

    So sounds like I hear you saying that really the first step too is that as you said, you’ve got to know who you are first before you can go out there and find the enemy maybe. But in a lot of ways, it probably starts with narrowing your focus, right? Here’s who we’re for. So here’s who we’re not for. It’s probably step one, isn’t it?

    Laura Ries (07:55.801)

    Absolutely.

    That’s right. Yeah, it’s a balance between knowing who you are, what you can say no to. But at the end of the day, focus has always been the key critical element of positioning itself. And the enemy is line extension, going in too many directions, diluting what your brand is. And when companies do focus, then they can make use of that strategic enemy. And it’s creating the contrast of the peak

    people can better understand because listen, people don’t have time. We’ve got to make these communications very simple, very clear so that people understand and also understand the choice. For example, you’ve got edible arrangements, which now goes by edible, which I don’t always shorten your name because edible today has a very different connotation. That’s not what they’re selling. There you go. That’s not what they’re selling.

    John Jantsch (08:48.11)

    I live in Colorado and it’s, you know, it’s…

    Laura Ries (08:53.418)

    They are selling edible fruit arrangements, which has a fantastic strategic enemy. Why buy flowers that will die, right? When you can send a delicious edible bouquet. But edible arrangements as a name is very, very strong. But again, it’s the category that really matters because people care more about the category than they do about brands. I hate to tell you.

    But while they speak in brands, we think, people love a Tesla. No, they don’t love the Tesla brand. It’s the category that they dominate, which is EV electric vehicles, the category that is booming right now. And people still buy them despite what they think of Elon Musk and all of his shenanigans. But very strong brand that did absolutely do many of the things we preach about, being first in pioneering a category and only focusing on EVs, which here’s the problem.

    Originally, this was a tiny market. The major automobile makers, they thought it was niche and they ignored it for many, many years. And that allowed Tesla to get in, not so much build the market initially, but build the mind of the consumer that Tesla was the car that stood for it. So, you can take advantage of the big companies are slow on these things. Another one was Red Bull. Coca-Cola ignored Red Bull for years until after 10 years, it was a hundred million dollars and they woke up and said, oops,

    But when they competed late, you know, it was too late to the game. Full throttle, tab energy, all of the others they try to launch were big losers. The brand that pioneers it, particularly when they do it with a good name, a good strategy, and a strong message, you know, it gives you wings if you didn’t know.

    John Jantsch (10:21.816)

    Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

    John Jantsch (10:32.878)

    A lot of those big companies just go out and buy the competition that’s nipping at their heels.

    Laura Ries (10:38.874)

    Well, that’s not a bad idea. if you’ve got the money, I mean, today, what has Coca-Cola done? They can’t launch their, they even tried Coca-Cola energy, if you could believe that. But they have made, you know, they put a stake into Monster, which is the only brand that has successfully competed against Red Bull. And today, it’s a very strong leader globally in the energy drink market. How did they do it? They didn’t copy Red Bull. They didn’t try to be better. They came at a 16 ounce can. Now, is that better? Who knows? It’s different.

    John Jantsch (10:46.54)

    Ha ha.

    John Jantsch (11:04.28)

    Yeah.

    Laura Ries (11:06.81)

    And it’s visually different and not only that they combined it with a great name a simple visual hammer the green claw They’ve got you know monster motocross and truck events and all sorts of things They’ve they’ve utilized that strategy to unify their anchor as to what they stand for against their competitor Red Bull But how do you compete with that? Well, the big number three today is Celsius They’re hot in the energy drink market by not going the masculine male approach as you know what?

    mostly Red Bull and Monster have done, but it’s a more unisex, fitness friendly, no sugar, and they’ve taken on a very good chunk of the market by going and being different.

    John Jantsch (11:49.166)

    So we’re talking about big brands essentially right now, but you’ve developed a framework that is really quarter the book. Do you want to kind of walk us through some of the steps? And like, have you walked into a company and let’s put the big brands aside? You walked into a company that is kind of trying to make their way now and trying to, know, what are kind of some of the steps you would take somebody through? And again, obviously I didn’t give you a type of company or anything, but typically.

    Laura Ries (12:14.186)

    No, well, I mean, you’ve got tons of examples and listen, I love working with entrepreneurs. I mean, that is actually the most exciting. They have such creative new ideas and potential. And not only that, most importantly, they have the courage and the balls to really do something different, something that the big companies usually don’t have. For example, in the moist toilet paper market, the early pioneers were, know, cottonel fresh wipes, which never really went anywhere because it had a, you

    It was cottonel, Kleenex, fresh wipes, something or other. They were trying to position a dual, you need two things, you need wet and dry, which never really resonated until one guy was living in a post-college apartment with a bunch of dudes eating, as he says, lots of burritos, drinking late nights, and they needed some heavy duty cleaning up in the bathroom. So on his weekly trip to Costco, he picked up the usual, baby wipes and a bunch of other stuff that the guys like to use, and he said, wait a minute,

    John Jantsch (12:51.982)

    Yeah. Yeah.

    Laura Ries (13:12.974)

    Why isn’t there a company that makes a product I want to use that’s meant for me and my guy friends and cleans up like a baby wipe does, but is also flushable and environmentally friendly? And he did that. He just pioneered that category. It’s called Dude Wipes. It has over $350 million a year, but it was just a guy with an idea. But first and foremost, he saw a problem, right? It didn’t create the category, but he said everyone is not doing it in the right way. They’re not focused and they’re not strongly

    John Jantsch (13:36.034)

    Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    Laura Ries (13:42.97)

    calling out an enemy. I Cottonelle can’t say, you know, dry toilet paper sucks, but Dude Wipes can. Dude Wipes says, you’re wasting your time with that. You’re just smearing it around. I mean, they say all sorts of crazy things, but a very powerful message by narrowing the focus, by taking on the enemy. And, you know, going in with entrepreneurs, it is so exciting because you can really take on the big guys.

    John Jantsch (13:50.03)

    Right, right. Yeah

    John Jantsch (14:08.835)

    Yeah.

    Laura Ries (14:09.058)

    You don’t have to be a big guy because you leverage where they’re weak and in every strength there is always some kind of weakness. Even in Amazon, if you can believe it, a bunch of entrepreneurs launched Shopify and they said, you know, Amazon is not really serving the merchants, right? They’re all about the customer and they do such a great job on that. But they’re kind of given the short shaft to the merchant. So, know, Shopify is the merchant hero. They’re setting it up so merchants can have their own stores.

    John Jantsch (14:26.7)

    Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

    Laura Ries (14:37.976)

    making it totally seamless, easy to do, giving them all the tools, support they need, and they’ve been a very strong competitor to helping companies sell their goods on the internet.

    John Jantsch (14:48.616)

    And of course their connected network has now made them even more powerful.

    Laura Ries (14:52.186)

    It took time, literally it was just a bunch of guys who tried to sell their own website and said, instead of, was it surfing stuff? I can’t remember. But instead of selling this, mean, they gave that up quick and said, we’re just gonna sell the software, the backbone of this. And they added incrementally all the other things and bells and whistles that went along with it. But it’s that key one idea.

    John Jantsch (14:56.77)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (15:07.308)

    Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    Laura Ries (15:16.762)

    Airbnb was the same way. mean, it was, you know, a bunch of guys living in San Francisco that said, wait a minute, you know, it hot periods of conferences, it’s impossible and very costly to get a hotel. Why don’t we put some air mattresses in our living room? We’re going to call it air bread and breakfast and rent out the room. And, you know, today they are they are taking on hotels in a big way.

    John Jantsch (15:35.15)

    funny.

    John Jantsch (15:40.686)

    Oh yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. In fact, you’re seeing some hotels actually now try to get into that business a little bit, you know, to, instead of just having their rooms, you know, actually buying houses and things to, get into that business. Yeah. Yeah.

    Laura Ries (15:53.302)

    Is that the right idea? Because listen, I’ve stayed in an Airbnb, I’ve stayed in a hotel, there’s advantages to hotels. I kind of like the fresh towels and the very clean sheets and the service that goes along with it. I mean, there’s no one way to do something. Instead of thinking about how can we copy Airbnb, how can we make hotels a better deal? And celebrate what is a very nice experience in a hotel.

    John Jantsch (16:09.581)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (16:13.102)

    Sure.

    Yeah, yeah,

    Laura Ries (16:22.66)

    Here’s the other thing. The best thing you can do as a big company or when you get to that size, if you’re an entrepreneur listening, is multiple brands. Give birth to your own enemy is a better strategy. Not trying to put one brand on many things, instead having multiple brands. And you see even great examples. So Mike’s Hard Lemonade was a big, big success at the turn of the century.

    John Jantsch (16:44.386)

    Yep.

    Laura Ries (16:46.87)

    As kids were turning away, young drinking adults were turning away from beer and other things. They enjoyed the Mike’s Hard Lemonade. But as a few years went by, we realized it had just as much sugar as a Coke almost and a ton of calories and we all were cutting carbs. So what did they do? Instead of line extending Mike’s into, well, they also did that honestly, into Mike’s Light Lemonade, they launched White Claw.

    John Jantsch (17:00.194)

    Yeah.

    Laura Ries (17:15.994)

    the first hard seltzer and this is the typhoon of seltzers of billions of dollars. And listen, it doesn’t even taste very good, but it is a new category. And as a hard seltzer, that again, naming the category is incredibly important. Zima, mean, you’re as old as I am, you know it, remember Zima, they didn’t know what it was. What was it?

    John Jantsch (17:16.035)

    Mm.

    John Jantsch (17:26.626)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (17:35.884)

    Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do.

    Laura Ries (17:41.562)

    I mean, it was similar to, you know, again, what White Claw is selling, but, they didn’t quite name the category and explain to us what it is. And when we don’t know what something is, doesn’t always taste very good. And that was one of the experiences of the Zemas.

    John Jantsch (17:44.77)

    Yeah, yeah.

    John Jantsch (17:57.72)

    Yeah, that seltzer category is probably booming like beer, my craft beer was at one point.

    Laura Ries (18:04.428)

    Absolutely. And not only that, there’s a huge, there’s always opportunity out there, which is what makes marketing and business and entrepreneur so exciting. You think, like, I never thought there could be another water brand. I mean, how many hundreds of water brands? And then came Liquid Death. And you thought like beer, how many beer brands? But have you heard of this athletic brewing?

    This is the hottest new thing. It’s beer without alcohol. What fun is that? But anyway, there’s a big trend into drinking less. And do you really want to drink a Heineken Zero or a Bud Zero? I mean, come on. But this new brand owns the category and celebrates it and says, you know, live an athletic lifestyle.

    John Jantsch (18:39.918)

    You

    Laura Ries (18:47.466)

    no hangovers. And one of the things they did as an important part of the strategy is they knew they needed credibility, that this was something that was not just non-alcoholic. mean, there was O’Doul’s and kind of other brands out there, but it was a good tasting quality beer. And so they aggressively entered it into competitions. And that drove a lot of the PR. In fact, one of the competitions, they beat beer with alcohol. And they have just a great way of talking about it.

    John Jantsch (18:59.159)

    Mm-hmm, right.

    John Jantsch (19:05.998)

    Mmm.

    John Jantsch (19:11.426)

    Yeah.

    Laura Ries (19:16.442)

    pointing out that enemy which is, know, why bother with the alcohol? Why not live for a better tomorrow?

    John Jantsch (19:21.91)

    Well, it’s interesting because they created a subcategory, non-alcoholic beer that tastes good, because I think the category was there’s non-alcoholic beer, right? That was the category. So if they got lumped into that category, they probably weren’t going to go anywhere. They’re not going to fight. didn’t has their brush, probably. So I think they kind of…

    Laura Ries (19:29.338)

    That’s right. Yeah.

    Laura Ries (19:37.562)

    No. Yeah, not being a line extension and not trying to look like a beer. The other thing they did that was very brilliant and visuals matter, visuals are incredibly important. Athletic only comes in cans. All of the other brands, of course they offer it, but they promote the glass because they feel it looks premium and it does.

    But athletic, I mean, what’s their position? mean, athletic lifestyles, you can’t bring gas, a glass bottle on a camping trip or a boat. need the can. And the can in bright pastel colors was a distinctive difference that also communicated how different they were than all the other products.

    John Jantsch (20:05.752)

    Right, right, yeah.

    John Jantsch (20:16.012)

    Yeah. So I want to end with a, know, because I think a lot of people listening right now are getting very fired up about their who, how they’re going to go out there and create their enemy. What’s the risk of creating you call foe enemies? I mean, just kind of like making them up.

    Laura Ries (20:23.322)

    I hope so.

    Laura Ries (20:31.802)

    you can’t make them up. Of course they do. course they… No, the rivalry has to be real. But it doesn’t have to be something, for example, I’ve got a phone case, it’s called Flaunt. What’s their big difference? It’s a square case.

    John Jantsch (20:33.166)

    But certainly people try, right? I mean, it’s like, it’s like, here’s our rivalry, but it’s like, they really? Yeah, yeah.

    Laura Ries (20:53.562)

    And that’s an instantly visible difference, but they promote that as you know, they’re they’re positioning their difference, you know, what makes them great and I love a square case. It looks cool. It’s fun. I stick my iPhone in there. But yeah, that absolutely it has to be not just you know, claiming a boogeyman out there as the enemy but something that that is real. That’s a tangible problem a tangible enemy and there’s always more than ways

    John Jantsch (20:53.964)

    Yeah.

    Laura Ries (21:18.358)

    more than one way to do something. mean, sometimes you want the very best, right? A high price can be a benefit, but sometimes, you know, also the ease of and the shopping experience, for example, going to Costco. People love Costco. Even the Kirkland brand is rising, right? Because people are saying they’re making a statement and the companies focus on producing very high quality and also, you know, the ease of not over, you know, there’s only 4,000 items. It really makes it much easier to choose when there’s

    John Jantsch (21:33.88)

    Yeah.

    Laura Ries (21:46.82)

    fewer things to choose from.

    John Jantsch (21:48.046)

    That’s funny because, course, not every brand, not every everybody’s going to like every brand. I don’t like Costco. I think it’s a terrible shopping experience. I go in there and I can’t find anything.

    Laura Ries (21:54.901)

    See you.

    Laura Ries (21:58.97)

    Well, you know they do that on purpose because they want you to wander the aisles and see I love the discovery of it But that’s the point there is no one and here’s the problem Most companies like Kmart, right? They’re trying to appeal to everyone They want people that you know want the the bulk kind of Costco They want people that want the simple shopping or they try to be everything It’s much better to take a very narrow stance and not worry if it doesn’t appeal to everybody

    John Jantsch (22:05.068)

    Yeah. Yeah.

    John Jantsch (22:27.062)

    I did love a good blue light special though. You got to admit that was amazing.

    Laura Ries (22:29.018)

    It was a visual idea. See, if you can give your strategy some way to visualize it, it makes it much more powerful. mean, think about duct tape. I mean, what a great way to communicate something that’s instantly understand in the mind. We know what we do with duct tape. We know how great duct tape is. It can fix anything. what a, know, using metaphors like that are a great way to do branding.

    John Jantsch (22:41.112)

    Right?

    John Jantsch (22:47.288)

    Yep. Yeah.

    John Jantsch (22:55.382)

    Awesome. Well, Laura, I appreciate you taking a few moments to drop by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. Where would you invite people to connect with you and find out more, certainly about strategic enemy, but also your courses and the things that you do around it?

    Laura Ries (23:01.274)

    Absolutely. Well, of course you can visit us online at reese.com and that’s r i e s dot com. We’ve got strategicenemy.com and I’ve just launched a sub stack. Yay. Exciting newsletters. I’ve got even the Reese hotline where companies are calling in. Well, it’s fake. Don’t tell anybody, but I pretend like companies are coming in and I give them really great advice. So check out those videos, check out my book and let’s do positioning together and nail those strategic enemies.

    John Jantsch (23:23.118)

    You

    John Jantsch (23:34.211)

    Well, again, appreciate you stopping by and hopefully we’ll run into you on these days soon out there on the road.

    Laura Ries (23:38.852)

    Absolutely.

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