Building a Business That Runs Without You

John Jantsch ( 00: 01.304 )

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jance and my guest today is Dr. Sabrina Starling. She is the founder of TAP, a business development and leadership development company that specializes in helping entrepreneurs create profitable, sustainable businesses that support both their lives and those of their teams. Known for her work on the four week vacation model and her expertise in people-focused business systems, Dr. Sabrina is a sought after coach and speaker.

for owners who want to take their business from a standstill. So Sabrina, welcome back to the show.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 00: 36.692 )

Thank you, John. I’m delighted to be here.

John Jantsch ( 00: 39.392 )

So you work, your work primarily centers around helping business owners get out of the weeds, struggle to let go, things of that nature. Do you find, you know, I know people probably come to you and say like, what’s the hack? What is the system, exactly? What’s the process I need to put in place? Do you believe that the first problem is actually one of mentality?

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 00: 59.124 )

Mindset is 98 % of the issue, if not 100 % of the issue. And I am aware for myself that there are so many ways that I have over the years held myself back, held the company back, and gotten in my own way, just from the statement,” I can’t do that. That runs through my head. On podcasts like Duck Tank Marketing, you know, we get tons of great advice, ideas, and tactics. And then,

For whatever reason, we’ll say, well, I can’t. And I’ve discovered that we can accomplish incredible things, and that we really need to change the phrase “can’t,” “needs,” “needs,”” support do I need, “need,” “nowhere can I learn,” and instead of asking those open-ended questions to open up possibilities.

John Jantsch ( 01: 55.278 )

Yes, I am aware. You know, I’ve been doing this for a long time and I do know that, you know, one of the things that creeps up all the time for me even this is like, well, I could do it faster myself is one. The other one sometimes is, but that’s kind of where I get like my joy or happiness, you know, even if that’s like not where I need to be. Right. mean, so sometimes it’s, I mean,

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 12:56 )

yeah.

John Jantsch ( 02: 19.906 )

Do you ever have sessions where you’re like got the couch out and it’s like, let’s visit your childhood. What are some of the causes of these exist, for example, are there?

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 02: 28.276 )

You know, I don’t find it very productive to go back in time because we don’t have the time to rehash and discover where all these issues come from. What I have found is that when our back is up against the wall, we can do things we didn’t think were possible. And especially when we have these things in our businesses that we hang on to because they’re our fun.

John Jantsch ( 02: 31.118 )

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Jantsch ( 02: 40.066 )

That’s the doctor part though, right? So I just assumed.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 02: 57.462 )

our joy. The Profit by Design podcast is a prime example of that, in my opinion. I love hosting the podcast. I love sharing and teaching. I enjoy conducting guest interviews. And then in the summer of 2024, right before I was going to take a four week vacation, fully unplugged, it was the week that I was just wrapping things up.

Ned, my husband, passed away suddenly and unfortunately. The trauma around that, can’t even, I don’t have enough background as a psychologist even to go into the level of what that did to me. All I was able to do is call one of my team members and say, don’t worry about the business. We’ll figure it out, but I’m unable to be right now. And

That was wonderful because a member of my family had already informed the company. So they already knew, thank goodness. And my team member said, Dr. Shabrita, don’t worry, we’ve got this. You simply go ahead and take whatever amount of time you require. I ended up being completely out of the business, fully out, like I couldn’t track anything for six weeks.

And that meant that I was completely removed from the podcast. And I was so relieved that it was. My team member, Melissa, stepped up and started leading the podcast. you know what? We had this whole transition plan in place where she was going to take it over and it was going to take a year and a half for us to get there. She stepped up and took the switch after it flipped over night.

And she’s done amazing things with it and our listenership has grown. We’re getting incredible feedback on it. So, back to the mindset issue I had created, which is that this is going to be challenging, in my head. And Melissa had created stuff in her head about the hosting the podcast and all the mental space that would be involved for her and why it would be hard. And suddenly, we didn’t have an option. She just had to run with it.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 05: 21.526 )

and enable it to work.

John Jantsch ( 05: 24.238 )

Well, and I am aware that you have somewhat shifted your focus from the traditional definition of sustainability. I think it was always about getting out of the weeds, but I think maybe it’s taken a new level of, of, of legacy and impact perhaps. and you, you, you did tell, you did share the story about your, your husband’s death off air. I can’t imagine, so let’s talk a little bit about, you know,

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 05: 32.297 )

Yes.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 05: 36.649 )

Absolutely.

John Jantsch ( 05: 53.954 )

that kind of refocus or shifted focus, I should say.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 56 ) 57.63

So the shift in focus that it created for me, he and I were in the midst of estate planning. You don’t anticipate that life will end at this point in, at this stage of life because we’re young. And so we had postponed our estate planning for two years for various reasons. You know, we would get started and stop. No, fun is not one of the main causes.

John Jantsch ( 06: 12.163 )

me.

John Jantsch ( 06: 19.722 )

It’s not very fun is one of the main reasons.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 06: 24.842 )

However, one of the things I became acutely aware of was that there were so many things to figure out that it felt difficult to put my finger on. And so we kept postponing decisions, like we would kick that can down the road. Next month, we’ll discuss that. We got too much going on this month to deal with this issue. And now that I’m on the other end of it, of feeling the pain of all of our decisions that we didn’t make,

John Jantsch ( 06: 34.732 )

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 06: 54.384 )

and going through all the complexity that resulted from our making these choices. It’s made me highly aware of all the people in my life that I don’t want to put through that, including the business. And so I’ve really started looking at the business from the lens of if something happened to me today, what’s going to happen to the business and most importantly, what’s going to happen to my team members who put

everything they put into working for us and providing our clients. I want them to know they still have a job, a paycheck, and that their opportunities continue to exist regardless of if I’m here or not. And because I’m aware that our clients will be looked after, I’m confident in their well-being. So I’m looking at it from the perspective of what do I need to put in place to make sure that my team is okay. And then I’m looking at it from the perspective of

I’m not planning my estate planning until 10 years from now, because you know, I’m not sure what will happen. I’m doing it based on here’s where we are right now. And if something were to happen to me this year or next year, I’d get a reminder in my scheduling system every year to get me to review my estate planning and the succession planning at Tap the Potential and update it. And that will be how I…

handle things just from a one to two year perspective rather than trying to figure it all out because that trying to figure it all out is too much. And neither of my children, age 19, nor my daughter, age 11, have any interest in owning or running. And so

What does that mean for my team and the legacy that Tap the Potential has left behind? Tap the Potential has been in existence for 20 years. We support business owners in taking their lives back from our business. What we do is driven by our passion. I don’t want that to stop if I stop for some reason, right? How do I make sure this operation can continue, then? Well, everything that I’ve been teaching

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 09: 12.449 )

When it comes to succession planning, how do you create a sustainable business that is profitable and can run without you? Because we’re looking at how does the leadership team run the business so that my daughters could continue to own it. And we can give team members the chance to purchase it if they so choose in the future. But even if they didn’t.

there could still be, it can still be owned by my daughters, but the business can continue to run with the leadership team and the systems that are in place.

John Jantsch ( 09: 51. 182 )

I’m curious, this kind of launched you on a little bit of understanding more legal structures and financial structures and things that maybe somebody who does exit planning for a living would do?

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 10: 03.497 )

Yes, so absolutely. It’s also led me to look at what is the most simple solution to put in place, because there’s a lot of legal complexity that could get added into this and financial complexity that a lot of small businesses just aren’t in a position to take advantage of and it wouldn’t serve them. We are aware that this business can run successfully.

with the leadership team running it. We have the processes, and the systems have been used. So what’s really the next level to get the business where if I’m gone and I’m completely out of the picture and a 19 year old and an 11 year old are owning this business, obviously with a trustee, somebody who is guiding them in the background, but ultimately they’re the owners.

What needs to happen? My daughters need to know the Tap the Potential team first, right? And my team needs to know them. They must understand my intentions. All of that needs to be documented. The operating agreements need to be updated at Tap the Potential. As we speak, my attorney is currently examining that. And so these are things that

John Jantsch ( 11: 08. 973 )

Mm.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 11: 29.335 )

can be done in any small business from the perspective of, if you, John, you have family who want to be a part of duct tape marketing and continue that legacy, but not every small business owner has that. And so it is.

John Jantsch ( 11: 44.974 )

Yes, but even up, as I’ll put it, it wasn’t anything that was planned or planned, I suppose. You know, she came back from backpacking, you know, after college and said, I need you, do you have like some work I could do? You know, that was literally, you know, how she got into business, you know, 15 years later, 13 years later, you know, she’s the CEO. However, I’ll say that our actions were not made with any intention. It’s been, hey, I know you, you know, me, we trust each other, we’ll make it work. And it does.

But I wouldn’t suggest that that’s probably the path for everyone, is it?

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 12: 16.535 )

If there is a chance and a possibility, that is wonderful. But we have so many small business owners at Tap the Potential where the business owners come to us because they’re frazzled, they’re burnt out. We help them succeed in making that company profitable, and it cannot function without them. And a lot of times they’ll say, now that it’s running so smoothly, I don’t really want to sell it. I’d like to own it. I enjoy it once more. It’s fun.

John Jantsch ( 12: 29.388 )

Right.

John Jantsch ( 12: 39.918 )

I like it again.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 12: 45. 585 )

And so great. And that’s where I am, really because when I returned, I realized, you see, I can’t run a business. don’t want, I need to sell this. I need to get out because my head is just not here. Well, first of all, you don’t make any quick decisions when you’re grieving. So fortunately I did not act on that. I simply permitted that sensation to exist.

John Jantsch ( 12: 54.208 )

Mmm-hmm. …

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 13: 08.311 )

And now that I’ve stepped back in and it’s a little past a year since I reflect on it, I’m looking at, okay, things are running really smoothly. I can do the parts that I love, which is coming on podcasts and the visibility sharing our message. And one of the things that we wanna be so intentional about it to have the potential is sharing our learning and the journey that we are on. So that’s why we’re talking about this in full confidence.

But I’ve seen so many business owners who have family members, adult children, who are maybe in the corporate world and they’re hoping to somehow lure those kids to coming in and taking a leadership role in the business. And for a reason or another, it hardly ever works out. The kids don’t have necessarily the same passion that we have, we who founded the business and started it.

John Jantsch ( 13: 46.839 )

Mmm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 14. 42-428 )

But there are people on our teams who have that passion, who own our immutable laws, who bought into our vision, who help us grow that vision. And it’s a very organic process. And so really looking at how do we allow what’s already very profitable to grow without actually stifling it by saying,” I want to continue own it.”

John Jantsch ( 14: 08.364 )

Yes.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 14: 33.876 )

and be in it, there’s a difference, then that’s transition that I’m in. Now I’m working about 10 hours a week at the most, a lot of weeks it’s less than that, and really looking at how do I serve the business, but most importantly making sure that anything that I’m doing can run, can continue without me. Therefore, the tools are in place to make it happen.

John Jantsch ( 15: 00.301 )

So.

I’m really hearing you say that often, and that’s true, that I want my kids to take control of the dream. But you know, really what the typical business really just needs to start actually grooming that was probably not their best word, but grooming leadership folks almost from the beginning, right? I mean, start identifying them with the idea that that however many years from now, you you’re going to need leaders if you grow, but also that’s your best bet for transitioning.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 15: 31. 703 )

Yes, and it may not be that the leaders buy the business. We frequently yell business owners off the rails. We just had a conversation in one of our small groups this past week where a business owner wanted to give ownership percentage to a member of the leadership team to kind of create a safety net there that that person is going to then take over the business and become a co-owner.

John Jantsch ( 15: 54.646 )

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 16: 00. 183 )

A lot of times we’ve seen that go awry over the years too. And so we need to keep in mind that we, the business owners, invested a lot of effort and labor in creating these businesses. And if we give someone ownership percentage and yes, they may be an incredible leader in the company and they may be doing, you know, they may have great strategic vision and being a huge support. But if we’re going to just give the ownership

What exactly are we doing to that A player? So right, one of the things psychologically that we have to be mindful of is that A players are intrinsically motivated. We show up and put in a lot of effort because it counts. And so when we start giving bonuses or incentives financially to reward an A player who works hard, that takes away that intrinsic motivation. It can interfere.

John Jantsch ( 16: 57. 29. 9 )

Hmm.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 16: 58.432 )

with it. And so I’m not saying don’t ever give ownership percentage to leadership team. That’s not where I’m saying I’m saying be very thoughtful and make sure there is a clear plan and way that that is going to be done. And I would really encourage people to consider whether they could become members of the leadership team to invest in the business over time, in the same way that you would do the same for buying stock in another company on the stock market.

those opportunities versus just here you go because you’ve been a wonderful team member.

John Jantsch ( 17: 32.238 )

Yeah. Yes. Yes. So in, in light of everything you’ve shared today, the four week vacation almost, almost feels trite. You know, because I mean, I mean, I need to take a four-week vacation because I’m sure people are hearing their story. Cause who knows what’s going to happen tomorrow. Right. And I am aware that’s something you’re known for. In a way.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 17: 40. 376 )

you

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 17: 52.76 )

Right.

John Jantsch ( 17: 59.576 )

Do you notice that some people say,” OK, yeah, that’s the goal?” That’s the goal. I need to go there by myself. But you kind of explain something where maybe just do it and like rip the bandaid off. Do it even if you don’t feel ready and see what happens.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 18: 13941 )

Yes, so do it and be planful. The worst way to do this is, you know, sudden and unexpected. When we support business owners in getting to the point where the business can run four weeks without you, we say start small, start with the baby steps. So it’s not overwhelming because none of us can talk ourselves into just saying, okay, team, I’m going to be gone for four weeks. Good luck. We’re never going to do that.

John Jantsch ( 18: 36.472 )

Yeah. Yes.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 18: 39. 767 )

But if we look at what’s the longest we’ve been able to be away from the business fully unplugged and increase that. So, let’s say the longest is four hours because some business owners are tied to their phones and constantly feel like they must respond to everything. So maybe you take a full day off where you are fully unplugged and really look at what is going to fall through the cracks and

what can be delegated, what can come off my plate. We employ a program called the chart of activities that cost$ 10, 000 per hour. And it is an incredible delegation tool. And it really comes at things from the perspective that we spend the majority of our time on things that can be handled competently by someone else and that give us very little personal satisfaction. The statistic is that we spend 44 % of our time.

on activities that offer us little to no personal satisfaction and can be competently handled by another person. And so we want to begin moving in the same direction where our main focus is on these$ 10, 000-an-hour activities. We are doing a$ 10, 000 an hour activity when we are working from our strengths, making everything else easier or unnecessary for ourselves or others.

That means that each member of the team can engage in$ 10, 000 worth of daily activity. And the beauty in that is that as we start delegating and taking things off our plate, we will have leadership team members who become overwhelmed and start to burn out because everything we’re putting on them, they’re kind of just like, I can’t breathe.

John Jantsch ( 20: 25.601 )

Yes, absolutely.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 20: 28.355 )

So what, then? They have to learn how to delegate too. And they pull out their chart of$ 10, 000 an hour activities and look at what’s the highest and most valuable use of their time around the sweet spot and what drives the profit in the business and start delegating down. When we delegate down in that manner, what we’re doing is creating a highly desirable business for A players to work in because A players want one thing.

John Jantsch ( 20: 52.621 )

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 20: 56. 309 )

opportunities for growth. Not necessarily advancement, opportunities for growth. And so when we continue, like when I continued to host the podcast, I assumed I was doing it to prevent my team from becoming too overwhelmed. She jumped in and she grew and she is so proud of what she has done with the podcast. I’m now just coming on, I’m kind of like a guest on my own podcast, and we chatter back and forth, but she’s grown.

and she owns it and she feels proud and that’s the rule of thumb around delegating is once you’ve delegated it and the person has handled it you don’t take it back because when you take it back what you’re saying is I don’t think you’re that competent like yeah you handled it in a few weeks but you can’t handle it long term and so this this chart of ten thousand dollar an hour activities you can download it at tapthepotential.com forward slash

John Jantsch ( 21: 39.638 )

Yes, you did fail, no? Right. Yes, that’s correct.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 21: 54.426 )

10K. That is a first step forward in terms of seriously considering how to get this business going without me and living beyond me.

John Jantsch ( 22: 07.522 )

What’s the one simple thing you just gave it to us, exactly? That’s the perfect segue. It’s tapthepotential.com slash 10 K. So, Sabrina, I appreciate you stopping by, the duct tape marketing podcast. think you’d invite people to find out more at tap the potential anywhere else you want to invite people to connect with you.

Sabrina Starling ( 22: 11.065 )

You

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 22: 24.971 )

Check out the Profit by Design podcast if you enjoy them.

John Jantsch ( 22: 28.366 )

Well, again, it was great seeing you. We’ll probably run into you one of these days while driving.

Dr. Sabrina Starling ( 22: 34.862 )

Thank you, John, for that.