Build a Brand Gen Z Wants to Work (and Buy) From

John Jantsch ( 00: 01.176 )

Hello and welcome to another instance of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch and my host now is Len Silverman. With lots of people spread across multiple states, Lan has over 30 years of marketing experience. As a past Learning Center landlord, he has seen Gen Z grow up and has gotten to know the technology and what makes him tick. Maybe that’s why he wrote the book Mesh, Aligning Your Personal Brand with Gen Z of Gen, sad.

I’ll test. This consider that all over again. Meshing blending your business culture with your personal brand to appeal to Gen Z. But Len, welcome to the present.

Len Silverman ( 00: 39.317 )

Bless you. Appreciate you having me,

John Jantsch ( 00: 40. 864 )

Thus, Gen Z is, as I recall, things like 13 to 28 years old then. Is that who we’re addressing here?

Len Silverman ( 00: 49.097 )

Yeah, very little. consider 1997 to be the start of that generation. But yes.

John Jantsch ( 00: 52. 48 )

Okay, okay. So the individual brand of Gen Z, what is that?

Len Silverman ( 00: 58.643 )

But, you lot of people these times are talking about specific brand. So I thought it would be really wonderful to kind of blend that with what I’m hearing about Gen Z on the street. But just to offer you a little bit of a frame around this, I started in the learning center company in 2004. So at that place, Gen Z was seven years old and I owned learning centers for 21 years. So I generally refer to these children as kids because I have seen them develop. Clearly some of them are young people, but

As I speak with business owners and officials, I’ve been hearing about how difficult they are to work with and how they are incredibly difficult to understand. And generally, some people are saying that they’re sort of washing their hands of it. And that really was upsetting to me. And I realized that Gen Z must first be understood. And I’m not saying that you, as a business, have to completely change to join them where they are.

However, I’m a firm believer that you need to know your customers, your components, and, in this situation, your prospective employees. But I go into a lot of depth in terms of why the century Gen Z is the way they are. You you didn’t ink anyone with a large brush. They are certainly not the same, but they, you know, went through a financial crisis in 2008 or 2009 and are now watching what has happened to their parents.

who even thought they had secure jobs. They resulted in the entire nation being shut down for COVID. They naturally grew up with devices in their fingers for the most part. So their access to information and their view of the world is so much broader than mine was at that exact time that I think their ideas on working and being a part of a business are quite different than my technology, Gen X, was when we were initially coming out.

John Jantsch ( 02: 35.064 )

Yeah.

John Jantsch ( 02: 54.828 )

Yes, and I believe that every single one of it is fascinating. I’ve read some nation or political reports on centuries and a lot of it comes from what their kids experienced. That’s what they experienced as they were coming off. Similar to the fact that I was born in the 1960s. suggest, but my kids were post-World War II and it really has a lot of control, but from a…

What are some of the stereotypes that people are using to describe the best expression, “hey, I don’t get it because X,” especially from a office perspective.

Len Silverman ( 03: 38.045 )

Yeah, probably the single I hear the most is, they’re stupid. They are not interested in working. They devil you. You’ll arrange an exam and, in some cases, actually hire them, even if they don’t show up on the job first. So those are some of the popular issues that I hear. I likewise hear actually quite a lot about. And I do want to start off by saying that I’m not saying this. These are the issues I’m hearing, but that they’re they’re sort of uptight that they will.

John Jantsch ( 04 :03.192 )

Yeah. Ideal.

Len Silverman ( 04 :07.785 )

they may sit in a meeting with senior executives and sound in like they have an identical seat at the table, which is an affront to baby boomer and Gen Xers. We simply don’t understand, to be honest.

John Jantsch ( 04: 18.552 )

Yeah. I’m not going to make this into a comic program, but I was. So who do you think? indicate, at first glance, you wrote this for even people who are hiring people, but I don’t think there’s a broader market for this, is it?

Len Silverman ( 04: 27.817 )

Hahaha!

Len Silverman ( 04: 42.557 )

People in a position where they are generally hiring need to know that they will need to make some changes or adjustments in their company to work with this generation, who currently makes up more than 20 % of the workforce, is what I really, truly, am trying to get people to pay attention to. And obviously it’s only going to continue to grow because these

John Jantsch ( 05: 06. 67 )

Mm.

Len Silverman ( 05: 10.899 )

these guys are becoming more of the age to work. The outdated methods of doing things are not always going to work. And I’ll give you a couple for instance, when I started working, and this was probably the same for you, John, we had mentors and they maybe didn’t call themselves mentors. Len, we don’t do this, I had people who would slam my shoulder against me. You don’t do this in the office. If you’re in a meeting with my boss, you don’t talk. That is what I was told.

John Jantsch ( 05: 33.134 )

Yeah.

John Jantsch ( 5: 38. 606 )

Yeah.

Len Silverman ( 05: 41.203 )

And in a lot of ways, I think that the folks that I’ve met with are almost a little afraid to have those kinds of conversations. However, I will tell you that Gen Z is looking for mentorship. It has to be positioned the right way for them. They speak and receive advice differently than we did, but they still want that kind of tutelage. The main thing is they want opportunities. I found them to be extremely entrepreneurial.

John Jantsch ( 06: 06.594 )

Yeah.

Len Silverman ( 06: 10.035 )

Whether they are acting independently or actively within an organization, that is. They’re basically doing what we call skill stacking. They just want to grow their own skill base, which means look for, you know, cross-functional opportunities for them and ways for them to grow their own personal skill, which hopefully they’ll continue to pay back to the company. But from their point of view, it also enables them to transfer those abilities elsewhere. So that’s another thing is you got to be aware you’re.

interaction with a Gen Z employee might be shorter than it once was with a Gen X or Gen Y employee.

John Jantsch ( 06: 43.085 )

Yeah.

John Jantsch ( 06: 48.494 )

Would there be something in this book that I could use if I’m a 24 year old looking for a new place to work?

Len Silverman ( 06: 58.847 )

would be present. First of all, we talk about it you’re going to be very familiar with this. I know that you and I and a lot of other people have talked about the customer journey for a long time and I’m a big believer in it. I’m aware of the discussions about the employee journey, but I’ve never seen much where people actually observe how a customer journey and an employee journey interact. To me, they’re kind of one in the same. So, too,

John Jantsch ( 07: 08.974 )

Sure. Right.

John Jantsch ( 07: 17.272 )

Mm-hmm.

Len Silverman ( 07 :27.847 )

If I was a younger employee just starting out, I’d be looking at companies very differently. I would be looking at kind of the pre-application process, what kind of brand they’re positioning themselves with out in the marketplace. What are the things they’re going to make me like and trust them to do if I get to know them? I would be actively looking for companies that are talking about the things that are important to me. And I bring up those in the book.

John Jantsch ( 07: 33.806 )

Mm-hmm.

Len Silverman ( 07: 57.225 )

I also give the employer the advice that some of the hoops you have to go through when applying to a company are just no longer working. So you’ve got to make it transparent, quick. I won’t say easy, but at least it will be manageable for the applicant. So I think that to help Gen Z sort of understand and identify those companies that are clearly

John Jantsch ( 08: 08.428 )

Yes, yes.

Len Silverman ( 08: 26.293 )

Making a connection with them will greatly facilitate their efforts to avoid what I refer to as crop dusting, which produces 40 or 50 resumes per day. Because that’s very disheartening when you do that. So they can spot things that I’m talking about in the book to identify those companies who are clearly making an outreach to them.

John Jantsch ( 08:38.124 )

Yeah. Yes. Yes.

John Jantsch ( 08: 47.79 )

So there was a time when, you might say, this is a prestigious company. This is a big company. You are aware that they are well-paid. mean, those were like, that was like the checklist, right? Now it might be paid a lot of flexibility for time off. They, they donate to causes I believe in how much of that brand balance is kind of just playing to who they’re trying to draw attention to. mean, because the problem with brand and culture is it’s kind of hard to fake it.

You are aware that it typically appears, you are aware, in some way or another. So how much, you know, is, a company, you know, this, this idea of aligning their brand, you know, how much of that is, is intentional. How much of that is just, Hey, we’re already doing this stuff. Simply put, we’re not communicating it.

Len Silverman ( 09: 35.445 )

It’s very purposeful, in my opinion. As matter of fact, I just made a LinkedIn post about five minutes before we jumped on here. And it talks about that kind of consistency that you can, you could talk about culture all day long, but at the end of the day, your culture will show itself through how you and your leaders represent your company on a daily basis. Therefore, in my opinion, there is work that needs to be done for those businesses that are serious about this. You know, you need a, you need a quick audit to make sure that your

John Jantsch ( 09: 47.118 )

Mm-hmm.

100 %. Yes.

Len Silverman ( 10: 05.441 )

of experience and your brand as a company are what you think that they are. Because otherwise, you’re going to keep getting these glancing blows where Gen Zers will try you out and they’re going to find out pretty quickly whether or not you’re fit. And they’ll go find something else because they clearly have a work to live attitude versus a live to work attitude. So if it’s not you,

John Jantsch ( 10: 19 / 30 )

Mm-hmm.

Len Silverman ( 10: 31.807 )

until they can find the next full-time position, they’ll go find some gig work. So you really do need to look at your own internals and make sure that your company on a daily basis is what you think that it is, monitor and manage that, and then go out there looking for that new employee base. Your retention will be much better.

John Jantsch ( 10: 36.237 )

Yeah. Yes.

John Jantsch ( 10: 53.41 )

You know, I wonder how much generations, whatever all the letters we apply to them, millennials and Gen Xs, I wonder how much they could learn from that. Because, you know, there was that type of, and they were just lazy, you know, and they didn’t want to work hard, you know. And some of it was like, no, they just want to have a life. And you know, I’m working 80 hours per week, you know, because I believe that’s how it’s done.

And if they don’t want to do that, then like they’re wrong. So I’m, you know, I wonder how much the, um, you know, the new workplace, the modern workplace in the world could actually maybe gain from, uh, a different mindset.

Len Silverman ( 11: 34.889 )

You know, I remember clearly, I can’t remember if I talk about this story in the book or not, but I remember clearly one of the very first corporate jobs that I got. My boss called me in his office after about six months to say, Len, I gotta tell you, I really appreciate your work ethic. And I had no idea what he was talking about. He said, you come in on time, when you go to lunch, you only take an hour for lunch. And he said,” I gotta tell you, I’ve worked with a number of people my age,” which is very unusual.

Okay, and I’m Janette. So I don’t believe what we’re discussing right now is anything entirely new. I think every older generation in a way kind of thinks the younger generation is a bunch of screw ups, which, you know, clearly they’re not. But what’s different today is I think we all talk more openly. I believe that having these conversations is much simpler than it once was. So now is a great time for employers to pick up on.

John Jantsch ( 12: 06. 711 )

Yeah, right.

John Jantsch ( 12: 11.426 )

Yes, every generation, right?

Len Silverman ( 12: 35.623 )

and take note that, once more, this workforce is expanding. We have got to figure out how to make this work for everybody. And you mentioned work-life balance is going to be incredibly important for this generation. They will evaluate your level of community impact, as you may well know. So there are things that you could pay attention to and kind of put in place again, before you go out there full throatedly trying to hire these younger people.

John Jantsch ( 13: 03. 16 )

You know, we’ve spent most of our time talking about employing the generation, but there’s a lot of them that could be customers too, right? And so would a similar kind of brand alignment, you know, apply to your marketing messaging?

Len Silverman ( 13: 06.378 )

Yeah.

Len Silverman ( 13: 18.421 )

Which is precisely, and I’m glad you brought that up, it’s precisely the reason I believe that the employee journey and the customer journey are so closely related. Because early in that process, it doesn’t matter if you’re positioning your brand for employees or for customers, that voice should be the same. And so I do think that this has a huge impact. The book clearly explains what’s important to Gen Z consumers if you want to target them.

John Jantsch ( 13: 25.08 )

Yeah. Yes.

Len Silverman ( 13: 47. 303 )

and can really help a company to kind of align not just their communication, but more importantly, what they’re doing every day with what Gen Z is looking.

John Jantsch ( 13: 55.298 )

Yes, there is definitely a growing trend in marketing circles around the notion of employee branding, where the idea that you’re a cool company to work for also serves as a strong marketing message.

Len Silverman ( 14: 01.545 )

Hmm?

Len Silverman ( 14. 45. )

Right.

I think it is. Yes. We, as a company, want to be the cool kids, and it’s, it’s a good idea to work for one that you could be proud of because, as you know, the bottom of the marketing hourglass is basically repeat and refer, which is being an advocate for your company out in the marketplace to find new employees. our end goal is really the same. And that’s to turn these employee clients into advocates for our, for our company.

John Jantsch ( 14: 22.348 )

Yes. Exactly.

John Jantsch ( 14: 40.312 )

So I believe that many businesses realized that if we don’t sort of rebalance our brand, regardless of whether they intended to or not, we won’t find the people we want. What are some of the mistakes you see people that are actually trying to change? What has either been their perception or their reality? What are some mistakes made in trying to sort of re-adapt and align with this current generation?

Len Silverman ( 15: 06.345 )

You know, it’s difficult to tell whether it was intentional or not because I believe the jury is still a little bit out. But, you know, we’ve read in the press about DEI initiatives. And, you know, right down the street from me, we have Tractor Supply as an example, and they had initiated DEI as a department. And then they resisted doing that because their target audience was being hostile. So were they doing that in order to grow sales, or were they doing that

John Jantsch ( 15: 1494 )

Mm-hmm.

Len Silverman ( 15: 35.547 )

in order to attract this younger generation. I’m not sure which it is, but it ultimately turned out to be a misalignment with their corporate culture. So I would say if you’re doing these kinds of things, if you are looking to use pronouns with all of your employees, just make sure that that absolutely aligns with the company you are. And you’re not just doing that to apease anyone.

John Jantsch ( 15: 46.401 )

Right.

John Jantsch ( 15: 55.246 )

Thanks

Len Silverman ( 16: 04. 777 )

Gen Z. Does that make sense, then? Those are the mistakes that I see. If you’re genuine, you’re fine.

John Jantsch ( 16: 05. 666 )

Yeah. Yes. A hundred percent.

Well, and I think you go to really the root of all of this is be who you are is probably going to now, there some things that you can do to where I see people making mistakes is they have that alignment, but they just don’t communicate. You know, it’s like, well, we do that, of course. That’s, know, that’s the right thing to do, you know, as opposed to, but then can you take that too far? And you are aware that you observe businesses.

Len Silverman ( 16: 27.977 )

Right.

Len Silverman ( 16: 32.732 )

Yeah.

John Jantsch ( 16: 39.534 )

promoting their environmental consciousness. And it’s like,” Make Styrofoam.” So how far is too far?

Len Silverman ( 16: 48.019 )

But they are aware of it.

Len Silverman ( 16: 54.843 )

You know, I believe that is a very intriguing point. And I think that is for each company and possibly its own board of directors and its customers and its employees to kind of decide for themselves. But you know, again, in marketing, we talk about content pillars. And if I were the company we’re talking about, I would come up with three or four areas that I would talk about, and then I would weigh them. So

I might spend 10 to 15 percent of my time talking about environmental issues if they are important but perhaps not the most significant. And that would be internal conversations first to make sure that we do have that right mix that feels right.

John Jantsch ( 17: 38.158 )

How would you advise a business that wants to rebrand their brand? It’s also important to remember that our culture is based on what we believe and will continue to live up to. How does somebody like that attract, so they attract folks that want a job. How do they acquire that, and how do they develop them into A players? They may be a little bit misaligned initially, but is there a way to then say, look,

Here’s how we do it here. Why do we do it in this manner, please. And some will fall off, but some will turn in day players.

Len Silverman ( 18: 10 )

You hit the nail on the head. We do it this way and this is why we do it this way. That’s the most crucial factor for this generation. They want to understand why. And the justifications are going to be there if you’ve created a culture that I believe we’re both talking about. And the other thing, I’ll go back to the mentorship thing again. You know, I talk about this in the book. For these new employees, I believe it is crucial.

You could set up a buddy, could be a peer mentor, it could be a leadership mentor, but someone who reinforces that message and helps that newer employee to shape how they’re presenting themselves to align with the company, most importantly, understanding why we’re asking to do that. And it might be that I’ve been on your social media accounts and I’ve got to tell you that some of those activities don’t really align with what we’re doing. And let me tell you why, this is my customer.

and my customer doesn’t really like to see that on social media. ok. Well, that becomes pretty clear.

John Jantsch ( 1992: 09.442 )

Yeah. Yes. All right. Let’s talk about abbreviations and punctuation. No, I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. We’re not going to go there. So, so Len, I appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by. Where can where would you invite people to connect with you? Find out more about your work, but then obviously more about the book Mesh.

Len Silverman ( 19: 18.389 )

It’s dangerous stuff to talk about.

Len Silverman ( 19: 35. 687 )

It is very simple. Lensilverman.com is the place to go.

John Jantsch ( 19: 42.606 )

Awesome. Well, that’s great. I think, it’ll be interesting to see, you know, we’re talking about Gen Z now what’s the next generation and what’s going to be like their iteration, right? that’s how we’re referring to them. We’re going back to a, okay. Okay. Okay. Awesome. I appreciate you taking a few moments to pass by, once more. Hopefully we’ll see you out there on the road someday soon.

Len Silverman ( 19: 54.835 )

Yes, Gen Alpha. That’s what we’re calling him,

Len Silverman ( 20: 07.093 )

Thanks, John.