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  • An Holistic Framework for Shared Design Leadership

    An Holistic Framework for Shared Design Leadership

    Picture this: You’re in a meeting room at your tech company, and two people are having what looks like the same conversation about the same design problem. One is talking about whether the team has the right skills to tackle it. The other is diving deep into whether the solution actually solves the user’s problem. Same room, same problem, completely different lenses.

    This is the beautiful, sometimes messy reality of having both a Design Manager and a Lead Designer on the same team. And if you’re wondering how to make this work without creating confusion, overlap, or the dreaded “too many cooks” scenario, you’re asking the right question.

    The traditional answer has been to draw clean lines on an org chart. The Design Manager handles people, the Lead Designer handles craft. Problem solved, right? Except clean org charts are fantasy. In reality, both roles care deeply about team health, design quality, and shipping great work. 

    The magic happens when you embrace the overlap instead of fighting it—when you start thinking of your design org as a design organism.

    The Anatomy of a Healthy Design Team

    Here’s what I’ve learned from years of being on both sides of this equation: think of your design team as a living organism. The Design Manager tends to the mind (the psychological safety, the career growth, the team dynamics). The Lead Designer tends to the body (the craft skills, the design standards, the hands-on work that ships to users).

    But just like mind and body aren’t completely separate systems, so, too, do these roles overlap in important ways. You can’t have a healthy person without both working in harmony. The trick is knowing where those overlaps are and how to navigate them gracefully.

    When we look at how healthy teams actually function, three critical systems emerge. Each requires both roles to work together, but with one taking primary responsibility for keeping that system strong.

    The Nervous System: People & Psychology

    Primary caretaker: Design Manager
    Supporting role: Lead Designer

    The nervous system is all about signals, feedback, and psychological safety. When this system is healthy, information flows freely, people feel safe to take risks, and the team can adapt quickly to new challenges.

    The Design Manager is the primary caretaker here. They’re monitoring the team’s psychological pulse, ensuring feedback loops are healthy, and creating the conditions for people to grow. They’re hosting career conversations, managing workload, and making sure no one burns out.

    But the Lead Designer plays a crucial supporting role. They’re providing sensory input about craft development needs, spotting when someone’s design skills are stagnating, and helping identify growth opportunities that the Design Manager might miss.

    Design Manager tends to:

    • Career conversations and growth planning
    • Team psychological safety and dynamics
    • Workload management and resource allocation
    • Performance reviews and feedback systems
    • Creating learning opportunities

    Lead Designer supports by:

    • Providing craft-specific feedback on team member development
    • Identifying design skill gaps and growth opportunities
    • Offering design mentorship and guidance
    • Signaling when team members are ready for more complex challenges

    The Muscular System: Craft & Execution

    Primary caretaker: Lead Designer
    Supporting role: Design Manager

    The muscular system is about strength, coordination, and skill development. When this system is healthy, the team can execute complex design work with precision, maintain consistent quality, and adapt their craft to new challenges.

    The Lead Designer is the primary caretaker here. They’re setting design standards, providing craft coaching, and ensuring that shipping work meets the quality bar. They’re the ones who can tell you if a design decision is sound or if we’re solving the right problem.

    But the Design Manager plays a crucial supporting role. They’re ensuring the team has the resources and support to do their best craft work, like proper nutrition and recovery time for an athlete.

    Lead Designer tends to:

    • Definition of design standards and system usage
    • Feedback on what design work meets the standard
    • Experience direction for the product
    • Design decisions and product-wide alignment
    • Innovation and craft advancement

    Design Manager supports by:

    • Ensuring design standards are understood and adopted across the team
    • Confirming experience direction is being followed
    • Supporting practices and systems that scale without bottlenecking
    • Facilitating design alignment across teams
    • Providing resources and removing obstacles to great craft work

    The Circulatory System: Strategy & Flow

    Shared caretakers: Both Design Manager and Lead Designer

    The circulatory system is about how information, decisions, and energy flow through the team. When this system is healthy, strategic direction is clear, priorities are aligned, and the team can respond quickly to new opportunities or challenges.

    This is where true partnership happens. Both roles are responsible for keeping the circulation strong, but they’re bringing different perspectives to the table.

    Lead Designer contributes:

    • User needs are met by the product
    • Overall product quality and experience
    • Strategic design initiatives
    • Research-based user needs for each initiative

    Design Manager contributes:

    • Communication to team and stakeholders
    • Stakeholder management and alignment
    • Cross-functional team accountability
    • Strategic business initiatives

    Both collaborate on:

    • Co-creation of strategy with leadership
    • Team goals and prioritization approach
    • Organizational structure decisions
    • Success measures and frameworks

    Keeping the Organism Healthy

    The key to making this partnership sing is understanding that all three systems need to work together. A team with great craft skills but poor psychological safety will burn out. A team with great culture but weak craft execution will ship mediocre work. A team with both but poor strategic circulation will work hard on the wrong things.

    Be Explicit About Which System You’re Tending

    When you’re in a meeting about a design problem, it helps to acknowledge which system you’re primarily focused on. “I’m thinking about this from a team capacity perspective” (nervous system) or “I’m looking at this through the lens of user needs” (muscular system) gives everyone context for your input.

    This isn’t about staying in your lane. It’s about being transparent as to which lens you’re using, so the other person knows how to best add their perspective.

    Create Healthy Feedback Loops

    The most successful partnerships I’ve seen establish clear feedback loops between the systems:

    Nervous system signals to muscular system: “The team is struggling with confidence in their design skills” → Lead Designer provides more craft coaching and clearer standards.

    Muscular system signals to nervous system: “The team’s craft skills are advancing faster than their project complexity” → Design Manager finds more challenging growth opportunities.

    Both systems signal to circulatory system: “We’re seeing patterns in team health and craft development that suggest we need to adjust our strategic priorities.”

    Handle Handoffs Gracefully

    The most critical moments in this partnership are when something moves from one system to another. This might be when a design standard (muscular system) needs to be rolled out across the team (nervous system), or when a strategic initiative (circulatory system) needs specific craft execution (muscular system).

    Make these transitions explicit. “I’ve defined the new component standards. Can you help me think through how to get the team up to speed?” or “We’ve agreed on this strategic direction. I’m going to focus on the specific user experience approach from here.”

    Stay Curious, Not Territorial

    The Design Manager who never thinks about craft, or the Lead Designer who never considers team dynamics, is like a doctor who only looks at one body system. Great design leadership requires both people to care about the whole organism, even when they’re not the primary caretaker.

    This means asking questions rather than making assumptions. “What do you think about the team’s craft development in this area?” or “How do you see this impacting team morale and workload?” keeps both perspectives active in every decision.

    When the Organism Gets Sick

    Even with clear roles, this partnership can go sideways. Here are the most common failure modes I’ve seen:

    System Isolation

    The Design Manager focuses only on the nervous system and ignores craft development. The Lead Designer focuses only on the muscular system and ignores team dynamics. Both people retreat to their comfort zones and stop collaborating.

    The symptoms: Team members get mixed messages, work quality suffers, morale drops.

    The treatment: Reconnect around shared outcomes. What are you both trying to achieve? Usually it’s great design work that ships on time from a healthy team. Figure out how both systems serve that goal.

    Poor Circulation

    Strategic direction is unclear, priorities keep shifting, and neither role is taking responsibility for keeping information flowing.

    The symptoms: Team members are confused about priorities, work gets duplicated or dropped, deadlines are missed.

    The treatment: Explicitly assign responsibility for circulation. Who’s communicating what to whom? How often? What’s the feedback loop?

    Autoimmune Response

    One person feels threatened by the other’s expertise. The Design Manager thinks the Lead Designer is undermining their authority. The Lead Designer thinks the Design Manager doesn’t understand craft.

    The symptoms: Defensive behavior, territorial disputes, team members caught in the middle.

    The treatment: Remember that you’re both caretakers of the same organism. When one system fails, the whole team suffers. When both systems are healthy, the team thrives.

    The Payoff

    Yes, this model requires more communication. Yes, it requires both people to be secure enough to share responsibility for team health. But the payoff is worth it: better decisions, stronger teams, and design work that’s both excellent and sustainable.

    When both roles are healthy and working well together, you get the best of both worlds: deep craft expertise and strong people leadership. When one person is out sick, on vacation, or overwhelmed, the other can help maintain the team’s health. When a decision requires both the people perspective and the craft perspective, you’ve got both right there in the room.

    Most importantly, the framework scales. As your team grows, you can apply the same system thinking to new challenges. Need to launch a design system? Lead Designer tends to the muscular system (standards and implementation), Design Manager tends to the nervous system (team adoption and change management), and both tend to circulation (communication and stakeholder alignment).

    The Bottom Line

    The relationship between a Design Manager and Lead Designer isn’t about dividing territories. It’s about multiplying impact. When both roles understand they’re tending to different aspects of the same healthy organism, magic happens.

    The mind and body work together. The team gets both the strategic thinking and the craft excellence they need. And most importantly, the work that ships to users benefits from both perspectives.

    So the next time you’re in that meeting room, wondering why two people are talking about the same problem from different angles, remember: you’re watching shared leadership in action. And if it’s working well, both the mind and body of your design team are getting stronger.

  • Design Dialects: Breaking the Rules, Not the System

    Design Dialects: Breaking the Rules, Not the System

    “Language is not merely a set of unrelated sounds, clauses, rules, and meanings; it is a totally coherent system bound to context and behavior.” — Kenneth L. Pike

    The web has accents. So should our design systems.

    Design Systems as Living Languages

    Design systems aren’t component libraries—they’re living languages. Tokens are phonemes, components are words, patterns are phrases, layouts are sentences. The conversations we build with users become the stories our products tell.

    But here’s what we’ve forgotten: the more fluently a language is spoken, the more accents it can support without losing meaning. English in Scotland differs from English in Sydney, yet both are unmistakably English. The language adapts to context while preserving core meaning. This couldn’t be more obvious to me, a Brazilian Portuguese speaker, who learned English with an American accent, and lives in Sydney.

    Our design systems must work the same way. Rigid adherence to visual rules creates brittle systems that break under contextual pressure. Fluent systems bend without breaking.

    Consistency becomes a prison

    The promise of design systems was simple: consistent components would accelerate development and unify experiences. But as systems matured and products grew more complex, that promise has become a prison. Teams file “exception” requests by the hundreds. Products launch with workarounds instead of system components. Designers spend more time defending consistency than solving user problems.

    Our design systems must learn to speak dialects.

    A design dialect is a systematic adaptation of a design system that maintains core principles while developing new patterns for specific contexts. Unlike one-off customizations or brand themes, dialects preserve the system’s essential grammar while expanding its vocabulary to serve different users, environments, or constraints.

    When Perfect Consistency Fails

    At Booking.com, I learned this lesson the hard way. We A/B-tested everything—color, copy, button shapes, even logo colors. As a professional with a graphic design education and experience building brand style guides, I found this shocking. While everyone fell in love with Airbnb’s pristine design system, Booking grew into a giant without ever considering visual consistency.  

    The chaos taught me something profound: consistency isn’t ROI; solved problems are.

    At Shopify. Polaris () was our crown jewel—a mature design language perfect for merchants on laptops. As a product team, we were expected to adopt Polaris as-is. Then my fulfillment team hit an “Oh, Ship!” moment, as we faced the challenge of building an app for warehouse pickers using our interface on shared, battered Android scanners in dim aisles, wearing thick gloves, scanning dozens of items per minute, many with limited levels of English understanding.

    Task completion with standard Polaris: 0%.

    Every component that worked beautifully for merchants failed completely for pickers. White backgrounds created glare. 44px tap targets were invisible to gloved fingers. Sentence-case labels took too long to parse. Multi-step flows confused non-native speakers.

    We faced a choice: abandon Polaris entirely, or teach it to speak warehouse.

    The Birth of a Dialect

    We chose evolution over revolution. Working within Polaris’s core principles—clarity, efficiency, consistency—we developed what we now call a design dialect:

    ConstraintFluent MoveRationale
    Glare & low lightDark surfaces + light textReduce glare on low-DPI screens
    Gloves & haste90px tap targets (~2cm)Accommodate thick gloves
    MultilingualSingle-task screens, plain languageReduce cognitive load

    Result: Task completion jumped from 0% to 100%. Onboarding time dropped from three weeks to one shift.

    This wasn’t customization or theming—this was a dialect: a systematic adaptation that maintained Polaris’s core grammar while developing new vocabulary for a specific context. Polaris hadn’t failed; it had learned to speak warehouse.

    The Flexibility Framework

    At Atlassian, working on the Jira platform—itself a system within the larger Atlassian system—I pushed for formalizing this insight. With dozens of products sharing a design language across different codebases, we needed systematic flexibility so we built directly into our ways of working. The old model—exception requests and special approvals—was failing at scale.

    We developed the Flexibility Framework to help designers define how flexible they wanted their components to be:

    TierActionOwnership
    ConsistentAdopt unchangedPlatform locks design + code
    OpinionatedAdapt within boundsPlatform provides smart defaults, products customize
    FlexibleExtend freelyPlatform defines behavior, products own presentation

    During a navigation redesign, we tiered every element. Logo and global search stayed Consistent. Breadcrumbs and contextual actions became Flexible. Product teams could immediately see where innovation was welcome and where consistency mattered.

    The Decision Ladder

    Flexibility needs boundaries. We created a simple ladder for evaluating when rules should bend:

    Good: Ship with existing system components. Fast, consistent, proven.

    Better: Stretch a component slightly. Document the change. Contribute improvements back to the system for all to use.

    Best: Prototype the ideal experience first. If user testing validates the benefit, update the system to support it.

    The key question: “Which option lets users succeed fastest?”

    Rules are tools, not relics.

    Unity Beats Uniformity

    Gmail, Drive, and Maps are unmistakably Google—yet each speaks with its own accent. They achieve unity through shared principles, not cloned components. One extra week of debate over button color costs roughly $30K in engineer time.

    Unity is a brand outcome; fluency is a user outcome. When the two clash, side with the user.

    Governance Without Gates

    How do you maintain coherence while enabling dialects? Treat your system like a living vocabulary:

    Document every deviation – e.g., dialects/warehouse.md with before/after screenshots and rationale.

    Promote shared patterns – when three teams adopt a dialect independently, review it for core inclusion.

    Deprecate with context – retire old idioms via flags and migration notes, never a big-bang purge.

    A living dictionary scales better than a frozen rulebook.

    Start Small: Your First Dialect

    Ready to introduce dialects? Start with one broken experience:

    This week: Find one user flow where perfect consistency blocks task completion. Could be mobile users struggling with desktop-sized components, or accessibility needs your standard patterns don’t address.

    Document the context: What makes standard patterns fail here? Environmental constraints? User capabilities? Task urgency?

    Design one systematic change: Focus on behavior over aesthetics. If gloves are the problem, bigger targets aren’t “”breaking the system””—they’re serving the user. Earn the variations and make them intentional.

    Test and measure: Does the change improve task completion? Time to productivity? User satisfaction?

    Show the savings: If that dialect frees even half a sprint, fluency has paid for itself.

    Beyond the Component Library

    We’re not managing design systems anymore—we’re cultivating design languages. Languages that grow with their speakers. Languages that develop accents without losing meaning. Languages that serve human needs over aesthetic ideals.

    The warehouse workers who went from 0% to 100% task completion didn’t care that our buttons broke the style guide. They cared that the buttons finally worked.

    Your users feel the same way. Give your system permission to speak their language.

  • Design for Amiability: Lessons from Vienna

    Design for Amiability: Lessons from Vienna

    Today’s web is not always an amiable place. Sites greet you with a popover that demands assent to their cookie policy, and leave you with Taboola ads promising “One Weird Trick!” to cure your ailments. Social media sites are tuned for engagement, and few things are more engaging than a fight. Today it seems that people want to quarrel; I have seen flame wars among birders.  

    These tensions are often at odds with a site’s goals. If we are providing support and advice to customers, we don’t want those customers to wrangle with each other. If we offer news about the latest research, we want readers to feel at ease; if we promote upcoming marches, we want our core supporters to feel comfortable and we want curious newcomers to feel welcome. 

    In a study for a conference on the History of the Web, I looked to the origins of Computer Science in Vienna (1928-1934)  for a case study of the importance of amiability in a research community and the disastrous consequences of its loss. That story has interesting implications for web environments that promote amiable interaction among disparate, difficult (and sometimes disagreeable) people.

    The Vienna Circle

    Though people had been thinking about calculating engines and thinking machines from antiquity, Computing really got going in Depression-era Vienna.  The people who worked out the theory had no interest in building machines; they wanted to puzzle out the limits of reason in the absence of divine authority. If we could not rely on God or Aristotle to tell us how to think, could we instead build arguments that were self-contained and demonstrably correct? Can we be sure that mathematics is consistent? Are there things that are true but that cannot be expressed in language? 

    The core ideas were worked out in the weekly meetings (Thursdays at 6) of a group remembered as the Vienna Circle. They got together in the office of Professor Moritz Schlick at the University of Vienna to discuss problems in philosophy, math, and language. The intersection of physics and philosophy had long been a specialty of this Vienna department, and this work had placed them among the world leaders.  Schlick’s colleague Hans Hahn was a central participant, and by 1928 Hahn brought along his graduate students Karl Menger and Kurt Gödel. Other frequent participants included philosopher Rudolf Carnap, psychologist Karl Popper, economist Ludwig von Mises (brought by his brother Frederick, a physicist),  graphic designer Otto Neurath (inventor of infographics), and architect Josef Frank (brought by his physicist brother, Phillip).  Out-of-town visitors often joined, including the young Johnny von Neumann, Alfred Tarski, and the irascible Ludwig Wittgenstein. 

    When Schlick’s office grew too dim, participants adjourned to a nearby café for additional discussion with an even larger circle of participants.  This convivial circle was far from unique.  An intersecting circle–Neurath, von Mises, Oskar Morgenstern–established the Austrian School of free-market economics. There were theatrical circles (Peter Lorre, Hedy Lamarr, Max Reinhardt), and literary circles. The café was where things happened.

    The interdisciplinarity of the group posed real challenges of temperament and understanding. Personalities were often a challenge. Gödel was convinced people were trying to poison him. Architect Josef Frank depended on contracts for public housing, which Mises opposed as wasteful. Wittgenstein’s temper had lost him his job as a secondary school teacher, and for some of these years he maintained a detailed list of whom he was willing to meet. Neurath was eager to detect muddled thinking and would interrupt a speaker with a shouted “Metaphysics!” The continuing amity of these meetings was facilitated by the personality of their leader, Moritz Schlick, who would be remembered as notably adept in keeping disagreements from becoming quarrels.

    In the Café

    The Viennese café of this era was long remembered as a particularly good place to argue with your friends, to read, and to write. Built to serve an imperial capital, the cafés found themselves with too much space and too few customers now that the Empire was gone. There was no need to turn tables: a café could only survive by coaxing customers to linger. Perhaps they would order another coffee, or one of their friends might drop by. One could play chess, or billiards, or read newspapers from abroad. Coffee was invariably served with a glass of purified spring water, still a novelty in an era in which most water was still unsafe to drink. That water glass would be refilled indefinitely. 

    In the basement of one café, the poet Jura Soyfer staged “The End Of The World,” a musical comedy in which Professor Peep has discovered a comet heading for earth.

    Prof. Peep: The comet is going to destroy everybody!

    Hitler:  Destroying everybody is my business.

    Of course, coffee can be prepared in many ways, and the Viennese café developed a broad vocabulary to represent precisely how one preferred to drink it: melange, Einspänner, Brauner, Schwarzer, Kapuziner. This extensive customization, with correspondingly esoteric conventions of service, established the café as a comfortable and personal third space, a neutral ground in which anyone who could afford a coffee would be welcome. Viennese of this era were fastidious in their use of personal titles, of which an abundance were in common use. Café waiters greeted regular customers with titles too, but were careful to address their patrons with titles a notch or two greater than they deserved. A graduate student would be Doktor, an unpaid postdoc Professor.  This assurance mattered all the more because so many members of the Circle (and so many other Viennese) came from elsewhere: Carnap from Wuppertal, Gödel from Brno, von Neumann from Budapest. No one was going to make fun of your clothes, mannerisms, or accent. Your friends wouldn’t be bothered by the pram in the hall. Everyone shared a Germanic Austrian literary and philosophical culture, not least those whose ancestors had been Eastern European Jews who knew that culture well, having read all about it in books.

    The amiability of the café circle was enhanced by its openness. Because the circle sometimes extended to architects and actors, people could feel less constrained to admit shortfalls in their understanding. It was soon discovered that marble tabletops made a useful surface for pencil sketches, serving all as an improvised and accessible blackboard.

    Comedies like “The End Of The World” and fictional newspaper sketches or feuilletons of writers like Joseph Roth and Stefan Zweig served as a second defense against disagreeable or churlish behavior. The knowledge that, if one got carried away, a parody of one’s remarks might shortly appear in Neue Freie Presse surely helped Professor Schlick keep matters in hand.

    The End Of Red Vienna

    Though Austria’s government drifted to the right after the War, Vienna’s city council had been Socialist, dedicated to public housing based on user-centered design, and embracing  ambitious programs of public outreach and adult education. In 1934 the Socialists lost a local election, and this era soon came to its end as the new administration focused on the imagined threat of the International Jewish Conspiracy. Most members of the Circle fled within months: von Neumann to Princeton, Neurath to Holland and Oxford, Popper to New Zealand, Carnap to Chicago. Prof. Schlick was murdered on the steps of the University by a student outraged by his former association with Jews.  Jura Soyfer, who wrote “The End Of The World,” died in Buchenwald.

    In 1939, von Neumann finally convinced Gödel to accept a job in Princeton. Gödel was required to pay large fines to emigrate. The officer in charge of these fees would look back on this as the best posting of his career; his name was Eichmann.

    Design for Amiability

    An impressive literature recounts those discussions and the environment that facilitated the development of computing. How can we design for amiability?  This is not just a matter of choosing rounded typefaces and a cheerful pastel palette. I believe we may identify eight distinct issues that exert design forces in usefully amiable directions.

    Seriousness: The Vienna Circle was wrestling with a notoriously difficult book—Wittgenstein’s Tractus Logico-Philosophicus—and a catalog of outstanding open questions in mathematics. They were concerned with consequential problems, not merely scoring points for debating. Constant reminders that the questions you are considering matter—not only that they are consequential or that those opposing you are scoundrels—help promote amity.

    Empiricism: The characteristic approach of the Vienna Circle demanded that knowledge be grounded either in direct observation or in rigorous reasoning. Disagreement, when it arose, could be settled by observation or by proof. If neither seemed ready to hand, the matter could not be settled. On these terms, one can seldom if ever demolish an opposing argument, and trolling is pointless.

    Abstraction: Disputes grow worse when losing the argument entails lost face or lost jobs. The Vienna Circle’s focus on theory—the limits of mathematics, the capability of language—promoted amity. Without seriousness, abstraction could have been merely academic, but the limits of reason and the consistency of mathematics were clearly serious.

    Formality: The punctilious demeanor of waiters and the elaborated rituals of coffee service helped to establish orderly attitudes amongst the argumentative participants. This stands in contrast to the contemptuous sneer that now dominates social media.  

    Schlamperei: Members of the Vienna Circle maintained a global correspondence, and they knew their work was at the frontier of research. Still, this was Vienna, at the margins of Europe: old-fashioned, frumpy, and dingy. Many participants came from even more obscure backwaters. Most or all harbored the suspicion that they were really schleppers, and a tinge of the ridiculous helped to moderate tempers. The director of “The End Of The World” had to pass the hat for money to purchase a moon for the set, and thought it was funny enough to write up for publication.

    Openness: All sorts of people were involved in discussion, anyone might join in. Each week would bring different participants. Fluid borders reduce tension, and provide opportunities to broaden the range of discussion and the terms of engagement. Low entrance friction was characteristic of the café: anyone could come, and if you came twice you were virtually a regular. Permeable boundaries and café culture made it easier for moderating influences to draw in raconteurs and storytellers to defuse awkward moments, and Vienna’s cafés had no shortage of humorists. Openness counteracts the suspicion that promoters of amiability are exerting censorship.

    Parody: The environs of the Circle—the university office and the café—were unmistakably public. There were writers about, some of them renowned humorists. The prospect that one’s bad taste or bad behavior might be ridiculed in print kept discussion within bounds. The sanction of public humiliation, however, was itself made mild by the veneer of fiction; even if you got a little carried away and a character based on you made a splash in some newspaper fiction, it wasn’t the end of the world.

    Engagement: The subject matter was important to the participants, but it was esoteric: it did not matter very much to their mothers or their siblings. A small stumble or a minor humiliation could be shrugged off in ways that major media confrontations cannot.

    I believe it is notable that this environment was designed to promote amiability through several different voices.  The café waiter flattered each newcomer and served everyone, and also kept out local pickpockets and drunks who would be mere disruptions. Schlick and other regulars kept discussion moving and on track. The fiction writers and raconteurs—perhaps the most peripheral of the participants—kept people in a good mood and reminded them that bad behavior could make anyone ridiculous.  Crucially, each of these voices were human: you could reason with them. Algorithmic or AI moderators, however clever, are seldom perceived as reasonable. The café circles had no central authority or Moderator against whom everyone’s resentments might be focused. Even after the disaster of 1934, what people remembered were those cheerful arguments.

  • Stop Solving the Wrong Problems in Your Business

    Stop Solving the Wrong Problems in Your Business

    Stop Solving the Wrong Problems in Your Business written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

    Catch the Full Episode: Episode Overview In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, John Jantsch sits down with entrepreneur, author, and business coach Kevin St.Clergy to unpack the concept of “blind blaming”—a hidden pattern that causes leaders to misdiagnose problems and stall growth. Kevin shares a powerful personal story that led to the […]

    Stop Solving the Wrong Problems in Your Business written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

    Catch the Full Episode:

    Episode Overview

    In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, John Jantsch sits down with entrepreneur, author, and business coach Kevin St.Clergy to unpack the concept of “blind blaming”—a hidden pattern that causes leaders to misdiagnose problems and stall growth.

    Kevin shares a powerful personal story that led to the discovery of blind blaming and explains how this phenomenon shows up in business, particularly when leaders default to blaming marketing, teams, or external factors instead of identifying root causes. The conversation dives into cognitive biases, the importance of reflection, and why many entrepreneurs stay stuck despite working harder than ever.

    Listeners will learn Kevin’s RCD Method (Reflect, Connect, Decide), how to uncover hidden bottlenecks, and why transformation—not tactics—is the future of business growth. This episode is especially valuable for entrepreneurs, agency owners, and leaders who feel stuck despite putting in significant effort.

    Guest Bio: Kevin St.Clergy

    Kevin D. St.Clergy is an entrepreneur, speaker, mentor, and author of Beyond Blind Blaming: Stop Solving the Wrong Problems and Instantly Unlock Results. After successfully building and exiting his own marketing agency, Kevin now helps business owners and leaders identify hidden assumptions, mindset blocks, and misdiagnosed problems that limit growth. His work focuses on transforming leaders by addressing root causes rather than surface-level symptoms.

    Key Takeaways

    1. Most Leaders Are Solving the Wrong Problems

    Blind blaming occurs when individuals assign fault to the most obvious or convenient cause—often without verifying if it’s accurate. This leads to repeated failure despite increased effort.

    2. Cognitive Biases Drive Misdiagnosis

    • Availability Bias: The first explanation that comes to mind becomes the assumed truth.
    • Confirmation Bias: Leaders then seek evidence to prove that assumption correct.
    • Result: Time and energy are wasted on the wrong solutions.

    3. The RCD Method for Breakthroughs

    • Reflect: Ask, “Is there something I’m not seeing?”
    • Connect: Seek outside perspectives (coaches, mentors, masterminds).
    • Decide: Take decisive action once clarity is reached.

    4. More Leads Isn’t Always the Problem

    Many businesses blame marketing when the real issue lies in:

    • Poor sales processes
    • Missed calls
    • Weak customer experience

    5. Transformation Beats Transaction

    Modern clients don’t want more services—they want outcomes. Businesses that shift from transactional services to transformational partnerships see higher retention and growth.

    6. Mindset Shapes Business Outcomes

    Limiting beliefs (e.g., “I’ll never be that successful”) directly impact business performance. Growth often starts with expanding what leaders believe is possible.

    7. Slowing Down Is a Growth Strategy

    High-performing entrepreneurs often avoid reflection. Scheduling dedicated thinking time is essential for identifying root problems and making better decisions.

    Great Moments (Timestamps)

    00:01 – Introduction to “blind blaming” and why leaders get stuck
    01:08 – Kevin’s baseball story that inspired the concept
    02:44 – Real-world example: businesses blaming marketing incorrectly
    03:36 – Introduction to the RCD Method
    05:12 – Why outside perspectives are critical for growth
    06:18 – The power of making decisive choices (MFD concept)
    06:55 – Why slowing down leads to better results
    09:25 – Recognizing blind blaming through language and mindset
    11:39 – The three fatal flaws: availability, confirmation, and misdirected focus
    13:47 – Transitioning from marketing agency to business growth partner
    15:01 – Strategy-first approach and becoming a trusted advisor
    17:18 – Diagnosing real business problems beyond surface assumptions
    18:58 – Why clients crave transformation, not services
    20:16 – Hidden personal factors (like health) impacting business performance

    Notable Quotes

    “Blind blaming is when we blame something completely out of our control—or something that isn’t even the real problem.”

    “If you keep solving the same problem over and over again and getting the same results, you’re probably solving the wrong problem.”

    “People don’t want more marketing—they want more money, more growth, and more impact.”

    “Build the business owner that builds the business.”

    “Transformation beats transaction every time.”

    John Jantsch (00:01.668)

    So what if the reason so many leaders stay stuck is not that they’re not working hard enough, but that they keep getting very good at solving the wrong problems. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Kevin D. St. Clergy. He’s an entrepreneur, speaker, mentor, and author of Beyond Blind Blaming. Stop solving the wrong problems and instantly unlock results. After building and exiting his own company,

    Kevin’s focus is work on helping entrepreneurs and leaders uncover the hidden assumptions, mindset blocks, and false diagnoses that keep them stuck. So, Kevin, welcome to the show.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (00:42.382)

    Thanks, John. Appreciate you having me.

    John Jantsch (00:44.122)

    So the term, I want to start with, as I often do, words out of the title, the term blind blaming is, doing a lot of work here. How would you define it? You know, I’m imagining one of my business owners listening to this, sitting at a stoplight right now, wondering why their numbers are flat. So for them, how would you define the term blind blaming?

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (01:08.834)

    Now I’ll start with the story. It’s the origin story that everybody likes. I’ll be quick. But when I was 10 years old, I was a phenomenal baseball player at a batting average of five 50. And for those of you listening, five 50 is epic. It’s great. and people noticed I was going to bat every other time I went to bat Babe Ruth and his hayday three 94, just to give you an example.

    so my dad and I went to work. worked with me on my mindset. I mean, I was young, but I love baseball and, we had a buddy who was actually used to coach for the Dodgers who was helping me with my swing in the off season. We practiced every day. And the next season I stood up and I was ready, but something was different because I started swinging and missing. In fact, I missed every time I went to bat for the entire next season. I literally went from here to zero and you probably guess what I heard from the stands. Come on, kid, keep your head in the game, play to win this time. And then can probably really imagine what my dad would give me lectures on on the way home.

    John Jantsch (01:50.298)

    Yeah.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (01:56.552)

    about how bad my attitude was and that’s the biggest problem who by the way still thinks that’s what it was back then even though he’s read the book. But what we found was two weeks after I quit because I’d had enough of the abuse and eventually started blaming myself thinking I’m just not right for this game I quit baseball and I went to a fluke eye exam we figure out what the real problem was I just couldn’t see the ball.

    Doctor said, sorry, kids practically blind without glasses. And here’s the real problem, the adults in my life for that two year stint never stopped blaming me for something that was completely out of my control. And that’s what we call blind blaming. And I see it in business, I see it in relationships, I see it everywhere. We all go through it. So for people that are down on their business, they immediately start thinking of things like, well, it must be my marketing, which I know you’ve taught for years. And a lot of times it’s not their marketing, they’re just not answering the damn phone when people call.

    John Jantsch (02:44.058)

    Yeah. It’s interesting how many times I’ve run into that, you know, that exact scenario. It’s like, you know, we’re just not getting enough leads and, we do call tracking and things like that. And we were like, yeah, you are. We’ve listened to the phone calls. You know, that’s not really the issue, so how does, let’s start there. Well, there’s, mean, I can go a lot of directions, but since we went there, how like,

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (02:56.929)

    Yep.

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (03:11.938)

    If you’re working with a client, you’re working with a business and you can clearly see that they’re blaming the wrong things for the results that you’re bringing. mean, how do you circumvent that? How do you change direction with that? How do you help them recognize that they’re looking at the wrong? And it’s rampant. mean, perfectionism is an example of blind blaming, I think, a lot of times.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (03:31.766)

    It’s rampant. yeah.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (03:36.812)

    Yeah. Well, the book’s broken into three sections on purpose. It’s awareness. So I’m finding that once people start reading about blind blaming, and they’re more aware of it, then it starts to make sense.

    John Jantsch (03:42.883)

    Mm-hmm.

    John Jantsch (03:46.383)

    Yeah.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (03:48.342)

    Then we teach them the RCD method, which is how they get past blind blaming. It’s very simple, but remember simple doesn’t always mean easy, but it’s simply reflect. RCD stands for reflect. Is there something else going on that I can’t see? You’ve got to learn to ask yourself that question because if you keep solving the same problem over and over again and you’re not getting any different results, that’s where we lead to insanity. But that’s what we go through as small business owners. And even when you get really big like we did with our agency, we had 450 clients with 900 locations, Sean. So I have plenty of scars of people like

    I don’t think your service is working. I’m really I’m showing 22 leads last month from your call tracking number Yeah, but we only scheduled two. I was like, well, that’s not my fault That’s blind blaming so But here’s where I think people fall down because they’ll get their team together and say what do you guys think it is? And they’re all in that sphere of influence and everybody else says what must be marketing. It’s certainly not us as salespeople It’s got to be the marketing. I just don’t have enough leads and the leads are generating their crap

    So connect is the C stage. You have to connect with an outside source, a mentor, a coach. I like paid coaches. I’ve had one for 20 years. Just got a new one that’s kind of up in the next level because I want to get the nine figures here pretty quick. So I’ve just needed a coach that’s already there. And then I also have mastermind groups. Those are some of my favorite ways to learn. I know you’ve been part of them. I think you’ve led them in the past. And I think when you do that, these people can see what you can’t see because they’re outside of that sphere of influence. You’re not tied down with your successes and your failures.

    John Jantsch (05:11.29)

    Yes, yes.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (05:12.181)

    And finally, once you know what it is, this is where D comes in. You got to decide to do something different. In fact, it was pretty cool because.

    I was a little worried about this in the chapter because it does use the F word and even Jack Canfield, he’s only the second guy I read the book. He’s like, man, I even love your effing part. And I’m like, my God, I just got Jack Canfield to say the F word on video, but it’s MFD make an effing decision. Because once you know what it is, I see a lot of people are like, no, maybe not. Let’s go back and review this again. Do something. And that’s a great story. Cause when we came up with this, it was actually one of my clients. She was debating on whether to go with one or two loans to double her business. And she’s like, Kevin, what do you think I should do? And I just told her straight up.

    up, Kayla, I think you need to make an effing decision. But I didn’t say effing. I’ve known her well enough. I helped her start a business seven years ago. And she’s like, okay, okay, she comes back a month later. And I always like to start coaching calls off these days with what’s going well. And she’s like, Kevin, I’m MFDing all over the place. You changed my life. Even my husband’s noticed and we’re doing things. We got the loan. We bought the business. We’ve doubled the size. We’re doing great. I’m like, MFD, what are you talking about? She’s like, make an effing decision. What you told me to do on the last call. I’m doing it. And I was like, Kayla, do you mind if I use that in my book? Because I love that.

    John Jantsch (06:16.378)

    Hmm.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (06:18.018)

    And that has turned out to be the biggest thing I was worried about has turned out to be the thing that people mentioned or remember the most. Cause they’ll come up to my booth after a talk and say, man, I love the MFD part. You’re right. I’ve got to make some decisions and make some mistakes.

    John Jantsch (06:30.276)

    So how you think about the entrepreneur, mean, there’s more to get done in a day, every day, seemingly than they possibly can. So, you know, they get really wired for go, go, go, go. In some ways you’re saying, wait a minute, slowing down is actually a more aggressive approach than, just constantly going at full tilt. How do you get people who recognize that, you know, that our part? Yeah. Yeah.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (06:55.968)

    I do a schedule audit and I see do they like for me 5 to 5 30 a.m. I get up early I didn’t used to because I worked in a bar all through grad school but now I get up and from 5 to 5 30 is my quiet time I grab a cup of coffee I do not look at a screen and I just journal and try to come up with ideas and I can see it on their calendar when they’re working six days a week and trying to see customers or patients whoever you’re working with because they keep losing people and they don’t give them some they don’t give themselves time to think

    John Jantsch (07:16.312)

    Yes.

    Mm-hmm.

    John Jantsch (07:24.78)

    Right. How do you get them to do that? How do you get them to do that? That’s… Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (07:25.87)

    And so I make them, well, I make them schedule the time. Just like yesterday, we had a client, I’m like, where’s your admin time? He’s like, well, I’ve got administrative assistant. I didn’t mean for her, when are you working on your marketing? She’s like, what do you mean? I’m like, wrong answer.

    John Jantsch (07:39.226)

    Yeah, yeah.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (07:41.934)

    So at the end of the call, we had her physically book these two Fridays in a row that she was gonna take four hours to work on this. And she’s so excited, because then she’s like, well, what do I do? So we had to actually lay out what she needs to do. So first you gotta schedule the time. What gets scheduled gets done. Then you need a personal assistant to protect you from yourself, John. This is like Christina Cann, who I think you interacted with, she booked this.

    John Jantsch (07:57.988)

    day.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (08:04.909)

    Christina’s constantly protective for myself because I say hey booker there. No, that’s your time to work on marketing for us to keep the company going I’ll find another space for that person So a lot of times I’ll find entrepreneurs who are just GSD getting us done and they’re not focusing on time for themselves nor do they have a personal assistant and that’s usually one of the first hires that I have people do when they’re a solopreneur

    John Jantsch (08:27.268)

    Yeah. And, know, for years I’ve, I actually just blocked that time out every week, that I’m going to do, you know, cause there’s a lot of things that you actually, you can’t get done between, you know, podcast calls, right? I mean, there’s, need that three hour ramp, if you’re going to do it. And so I’ve, I’ve just had that on my calendar and, know, the nice thing is you can’t schedule over it. You know, other people can’t schedule over it.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (08:29.357)

    .

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (08:41.355)

    Right. Yeah.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (08:51.757)

    No, and I like, yeah, I agree. And I like having breaks. mean, Christina is really good about a 10 a.m. break from 10 to 10 30. That’s my walk and my snack from 12 to one. I do take a lunch. I didn’t used to take lunches. I worked through it. Just power through as a mistake. 30 minutes at three o’clock to three 30. And I usually wrap up my day between two and two and three o’clock these days because I start pretty early.

    John Jantsch (09:06.967)

    Yes.

    John Jantsch (09:13.427)

    Yeah, same here. So when you’re working with a client, have you started to recognize specific patterns of language particularly that kind of tip you off that like, this one’s in blind blaming mode?

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (09:16.077)

    .

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (09:25.613)

    Yeah, it’s the stories they’re telling themselves. And I’ll give you a great example of somebody recently. She’s like, I can’t wait to work with you. She was really excited. It our first call. We had a great interview. And she’s like, was like, what do you think your biggest challenge is? When we got to that point, she says, well, I’ll never be as big as you, but my biggest problem is marketing. And I said, wait a minute, let’s stop. Let’s go back. It’s not your marketing.

    John Jantsch (09:27.45)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (09:43.988)

    Hehehehehe

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (09:50.036)

    Why did you say you’ll never be as big as me? She goes, because I just know it. I know I’m not going to be as big as you, you know, I’m like, okay, well, let’s work on that. So we spent the first call working on mindset because our coaching program we called M3 mastery. It’s mindset, margins, momentum. I just find if we build the business owner that builds the business, we’ve had a lot of success with that over the years. And a lot of times just giving them a way.

    to dream bigger and think big makes a huge difference. We were at dinner a couple nights ago. I was on a big podcast, live podcast here in Austin with a bunch of people and one of the people was one of my customers and she had been invited too. And she’s like, you know, before I met you, I just thought I’d be happy with just a million dollar a year business working, know, Monday through Friday, eight to five. And I never thought that I’d have a $3 million a year business working Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and taking Thursdays and Fridays completely off.

    It wasn’t until you taught me how to think bigger that made the big difference for me. So build the business owner that builds the business and start thinking big. I mean, that’s why we’re, you know, we had an eight figure exit. I want a hundred million dollar exit next. That’s my next thing. So the bigger you think, the bigger you’ll get.

    John Jantsch (10:51.417)

    if

    John Jantsch (10:59.354)

    So, let’s go back to that marketing example. I totally agree with you. Walking that back to mindset certainly was the place to go. But we work with a lot of agencies and I mean, so I hear this story all the time. You deliver, results are still flat, everyone blames the agency. So you’ve probably heard that exact situation. How do you get people to walk that back? Because they’re basically making that

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (11:01.933)

    you

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (11:22.285)

    .

    John Jantsch (11:28.686)

    decision, if you will, that blame based on what data they can see or what data they think they have and that data is we’re not growing.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (11:32.066)

    Yeah.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (11:39.342)

    Yeah, so they, I mean, we call it the three fatal falls of blind blaming. So the first one, we have these cognitive biases, John, that you’re well aware of, because I’ve been following you for years, and you’ve helped me a lot over my career, so I could say thank you in person, by the way. But.

    John Jantsch (11:51.799)

    You

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (11:53.838)

    I think the first fatal flaw is there’s this thing called availability bias. And these cognitive biases are there to help us make decisions quicker and do things better and faster, but they can be getting away and hinder our success as well. And the first one is called availability bias, which means the first thing that pops into an entrepreneur’s head about what’s wrong with their marketing, that’s it. It’s got to be their agency and the people that have agencies that are working with customers. Cause I had a marketing agency for 17 years. I know the scars. I’ve got the deep wounds. For those of you who do choose to read the book, you’ll see those wounds in the, in the book with some of my

    examples. But once they do that then the next fatal flaw comes into play where it’s confirmation bias. They become a treasure hunter to prove themselves right and they start looking for data to back that up. Well I’m definitely slow. It was my slowest month ever and I wasn’t slow before I hired you guys so it’s your fault.

    And so then finally, you’re too busy looking at the wrong problem, you can’t focus on the right solutions. So that’s the third fatal flaw. So what we do though is, especially for like agencies, when working with agencies, I just share with them what we did when we changed our whole model from just providing digital marketing services to a business growth company and started including coaching, because I was getting so frustrated and so angry of generating leads and then them not converting those leads to appointments. And so we created Front Desk Academy.

    Then I was getting really frustrated because we were putting the leads in front of them and then they weren’t closing them. And of course it’s still our fault. Couldn’t be them, it’s not their sales process, not another sales training. I had a recent customer and she said this online out loud to everyone that when I mentioned that we really need to work on your sales process, she started crying. So it was, I was like, I didn’t want to make you cry. I said, no, it’s not you, you’re right, I need to fix this. So.

    I think what agencies need to do is they need to pivot a little bit and they need to start looking at the results that they get and what it really does. Because people, don’t think people want to sign up for more marketing. They don’t want to spend money on marketing. What they want is to make more money, grow their business and have more of an impact.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (13:47.534)

    And that’s the change we made in 2018. When we became a business development company that provided digital marketing services, and no matter what they did with us, we would help them grow. Because let’s face it, you’ve done this, John, some marketing works, some doesn’t. Some digital marketing takes months to get going. But what we did is we developed a business assessment to help them identify holes in their bucket, and then we helped them fill it. So weekly, we were coaching them for the first eight to 10 weeks they were on board with us, where a lot of people got a return on their investment before we even started their marketing, before it got going.

    John Jantsch (14:17.412)

    Yes.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (14:17.665)

    That’s when we quadrupled the size of our company. We did really well. We weren’t even looking to sell. Our broker came to us and said, look, I think your business is worth this. And we started laughing. And then he got that. So it was kind of a blessed day. Anyway, I hope that answers your question in a good way.

    John Jantsch (14:21.924)

    Yes.

    John Jantsch (14:29.242)

    Yeah, no, absolutely. That’s really where we’ve been for years. mean, the only thing when people engage us, it’s not to do their marketing, it’s to do what we call strategy first, which is a very set engagement that has set deliverables that we work on their business objectives first. We work on the founder and finding where they’re getting in the way. and I tell you from a marketing standpoint, it changes the whole relationship too.

    in day one not seen as a vendor. We’re seen as a trusted advisor and all the other stuff we want to recommend, they’re like bring it on because you’ve changed the relationship.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (15:01.046)

    Yeah.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (15:09.279)

    Yeah, and I love it. Yeah, because you’ve become a partner and when somebody comes in with a lower price, they’re like, yeah, but I lose John and his team. That’s what we learned. We just did it. The story is in my book as well. But yeah, I agree. And I love that you’re doing that.

    John Jantsch (15:13.433)

    Yes.

    John Jantsch (15:16.761)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (15:23.62)

    So symptom fixing versus root cause thinking. How do you get people, most people are in symptom, you know, this hurts, you know, how do I fix it? How do you get people to start thinking way beyond the symptom to, you know, wellness, if you will, if we’re going to use the analogy.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (15:41.174)

    Yeah, so back to that. We teach them the process. We teach them how to move beyond blind blaming with making them aware that blind blaming exists and they’re suffering from it. Then we take them through the RCD method, but a lot of times they don’t really know how to dig a little deeper. So we’ve been really big on if we’re working with coaches or agencies, helping them develop an assessment that does go deeper.

    And then that’s how we identify things. We have them take a small assessment that helps them step out of the box and take a look at the way they’re doing things. For some reason, I mean, when I used to do it in person, it worked okay, but when they have them do the assessment and they see the results with the AI stuff we have today, it’s made a huge difference. And they’re like, man, I knew exactly when I went through this assessment what’s really going on.

    And now it just helps my coaching go a lot faster. Don’t know why I’m not, I don’t, it was just something that I learned to do at a conference and we started using it and then we started teaching our clients to do the same and they’re seeing the same thing. So having an assessment that helps them step out of the box and look at the way they’re doing things to identify some other things it can be is one of the first things. But a lot of times just if you’re working with a good coach like yourself, who’s got a lot of experience and you’ve seen the same mistakes that entrepreneurs make every other day when it comes to their marketing, we know.

    Cause I love it when people tell me like, well, I definitely need to rebuild my website. And I always ask why. Look, I had a digital marketing. My company’s job was to produce some doubt so that you would switch to us. But I always instructed our practice advisors as we called them, cause we were in the medical field to ask them how many leads a month before you switch and come to us, how many leads a month are you going? And you can probably guess what we got, John. What do you mean?

    John Jantsch (17:16.922)

    One, two, yeah. Yeah, well, that’s true.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (17:18.253)

    I have no idea. No, most of time it was like, I don’t know. I just know I need to switch because my business is down. And then sometimes we wouldn’t let people come on board. like, listen, no offense. I’d love to earn your business, but you’re getting like 30 leads a month from your current marketing company. I don’t think you have a problem with this. And we used to secret shop their clinics before we’d get on the phone with them. I like, listen, your problem is your front desk. In fact, you know, when we said how much are your hearing aids, she said they can be as much as $7,000, but you probably won’t need those. Great script.

    No, they would hang up and go away. And I said, guess who scored worse on these secret shopper calls? Do you think it was the front desk or the owner? The owner. They’re the worst. So anyway, that’s, that’s some of the things that we do is help them step out of the box and take a look at other things.

    John Jantsch (17:52.922)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (18:00.1)

    So, I mean, you’re in the personal coaching mindset space. So you probably quite naturally get, mean, some of your engagements probably get personal pretty fast. and I think, what I think is interesting about that and where there’s, see a lot of resistance, particularly from service providers. It’s like, I’m just here to do this, you know? but what I’ve seen is that I think what people are craving now, just what you said, they don’t want.

    more marketing stuff. They don’t, you know, they don’t want to basically go, I mean, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve talked to somebody and they’ve had like five agencies and they’ve all done the same thing. You know, it’s like you’re hiring them to do the same thing. You know, what did you, what did you expect? And, and what I think people are craving today more than ever is transformation. Um, and I think that we have a real opportunity as service providers or whatever we want to call it to actually go so much deeper and help them evolve.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (18:39.021)

    yeah.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (18:42.519)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (18:58.552)

    not just as a business, but as a person. And that’s a space that I think is wide open, quite frankly, in the marketing world.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (19:05.229)

    Yeah, I agree because we, as I said, we found that we in our big masterminds where we charge 25 and 50 grand a year. It’s very interesting to me to go from a digital marketing company charge of $900 a month.

    John Jantsch (19:15.63)

    Yeah, right.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (19:17.549)

    and having this, have you done for me today to 25 and 50 and then soon to be $100,000 level and have people go, I can’t believe this, you changed my life. I can’t wait for next year. Let’s, they’re re-upping. We have a 90 % up rate, re-up rate at the end of the year. It’s fascinating to me because we changed the way we focus. We talked about that transformation and what’s happened with other clients. So yeah, totally with you. And it’s, it’s just amazing to me. If we can get more agencies to focus on that transformation, John, uh, cause that’s what we just trademarked heck out of this, but we call our program M3 Mastery from Trans

    John Jantsch (19:34.852)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (19:39.46)

    Peace.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (19:47.456)

    transactional to transformational and that was my big lesson when we really focused on Getting some transformation in their business not just what we did or the service provide That would that made a huge difference and sometimes as you said We’d find that the owner has a health problem that when I am diagnosed for years Like just recently we had somebody who has a very large eight figure a year of business, but she was miserable I was like, long has it she been to the doctor? She’s about 43. So she’s getting up to you know in that age She’s like, you know, I read your book and I’ve got an appointment

    John Jantsch (19:49.38)

    Nice.

    John Jantsch (20:13.742)

    Yeah, yeah.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (20:16.981)

    And so she came back and she’s like, my God, my testosterone is low and I had no idea. It’s been that way for years. My doctor never run the test. And once we got that fixed, she exploded. Her team culture completely changed. Everything came into place where the coaching finally started working. Cause she was getting frustrated with me and I’m like, look, I think there’s something else going on that you’re missing. Let’s go back to that assessment. Cause we look at five different areas. We look at their health, we look at their purpose. We look at their relationships, not necessarily their personal relationships with the people, how they react with people.

    John Jantsch (20:22.468)

    Hmm.

    John Jantsch (20:32.985)

    Hmph.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (20:46.895)

    people at work and a few other things like a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset and then we make sure they have the right resources and usually in those five areas it’s not about finding one thing in each area John it’s about finding that one thing and for her it was low testosterone which is something that I went through a couple years ago so I put in the book.

    John Jantsch (20:46.906)

    Sure.

    John Jantsch (21:00.396)

    Yeah. Yeah, that’s funny. Well, Kevin, I appreciate you taking a moment, a few moments to share with our audience. Is there someplace you’d invite people to find out more about your work and certainly get a copy of the book?

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (21:12.011)

    Yeah, you bet. Yes, sir. I always recommend people go to the website blindblaming.com.

    We have for 15 bucks, have all four copies of the book that you can get plus a bunch of bonuses. It’s just a great way to get in our funnel and you’ll get invites to some of the challenges and things like that that we do as well. So blindblaming.com is the best place to go and just from the feedback I’ve got the last couple of years on the book, the book. You can listen to it whether it’s audio, PDF, or if you’re a book book person like I am because I’m older, you can get all four copies and I think it’ll change your life.

    John Jantsch (21:42.854)

    I appreciate it. And again, hopefully we’ll run into one of these days when we’re out there on the road. In fact, I’m going to be in Austin.

    Kevin D. St.Clergy (21:51.38)

    great, I’d love to see you. Yeah, come up to the compound. We’d love to have you. So we got indoor golf, we got a garage, Mahal, we got a casino, we got a wine cellar. So we got some fun up here. Come see me.

    John Jantsch (21:51.537)

    maybe I’ll stop by.

    powered by

  • 15 ‘Serious’ Movies That Nobody Treats as Such

    15 ‘Serious’ Movies That Nobody Treats as Such

    Filmmakers often want their movies to be taken with the seriousness and passion that went into making them, but they can’t control how the audience reacts. With a combination of awkward dialogue, over-the-top performances, and moments that feel unintentionally absurd, certain “serious” movies end up being remembered more for laughs than impact.

    Over time, many of these films gain a second life through memes, quotes, and ironic appreciation. Instead of being taken at face value, they’re enjoyed in a completely different way. They might not be what the authors intended, but they are certainly outliving many other ‘legitimate’ pieces of media.

    The post 15 ‘Serious’ Movies That Nobody Treats as Such appeared first on Den of Geek.

    For the past 20 years, we sure have spent a lot of time imagining the end of the world. From The Hunger Games to The Walking Dead to Snowpiercer, pop culture has been obsessed with describing the fall of civilization and the bloody aftermath that follows. Generally, these stories follow a pretty familiar pattern, with fleeting moments of safety and kindness interrupted by violence and humanity at its worst.

    But the first trailer for The Dog Stars suggests that Ridley Scott has something else in mind. The trailer introduces Jacob Elordi as Hig, a pilot living after the fall of civilization with his dog, the one remnant of his happy marriage in the before-times. While his partner Bangley (Josh Brolin) has a heart cold enough to survive, Hig desires something more, and may find it with medic Cima (Margaret Qualley). Set to a slower version of Van Morrison’s “Into the Mystic,” the trailer is all optimism and hope, despite the cruel surroundings.

    Hope is built into the source material, the 2012 novel by Peter Heller. The book became a hit not just because it met the expectations of the post-apocalyptic genre, including depictions of the way humans can mistreat one another, but also because of its humor and its poetic depiction of a soulful hero. If Scott can translate those elements to screen, then The Dog Stars may be able to add another hit to his incredible career.

    cnx.cmd.push(function() {
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    }).render(“0270c398a82f44f49c23c16122516796”);
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    The Dog Stars‘s timing couldn’t be better, as moviegoers are ready to find hope at the end of the world. Based on the novel by Andy Weir. Project Hail Mary has been a favorite among audiences precisely because it sets a delightful buddy comedy between Ryan Gosling and his puppet pal against the backdrop of impending doom. That movie suggests that the apocalypse can be canceled if you’ve got a good friend by your side.

    But, of course, Project Hail Mary is directed by Phil Lord and Christopher Miller, two filmmakers known for their carefree projects. The same definitely cannot be said of Ridley Scott. Even before he became the delightfully grouchy old man he is today, Scott had no problem getting bleak, as demonstrated by the company putting profits over people in Alien, the general dourness of Blade Runner, and the military incompetence on display in Black Hawk Down. Even those who find some triumph in the ending of Thelma & Louise have to acknowledge that the duo does drive off a cliff.

    That said, Scott did helm The Martian, an optimistic adventure also based on a Weir book. If Scott can stay in that tone for The Dog Stars then he can continue to give us hope in hard times, and maybe score another box office hit for himself.

    The Dog Stars arrives in theaters on August 28, 2026.

    The post Ridley Scott’s The Dog Stars Trailer Imagines a Hopeful Post-Apocalypse appeared first on Den of Geek.

  • 15 Video Game Boss Fights More Frustrating Than Fun

    15 Video Game Boss Fights More Frustrating Than Fun

    Boss fights are meant to be the ultimate test of everything a game has taught you. At their best, they feel challenging, rewarding, and satisfying to overcome, although not every fight reaches that goal. Some rely on cheap mechanics, awkward design choices, or sudden difficulty spikes that turn the experience into pure frustration.

    Instead of feeling like a fair challenge, these encounters can feel tedious, confusing, or even broken. Bad design or just questionable decisions brought these fights into being, making them the boss fights that players remember not for the victory, but for how exhausting it was to get there.

    The post 15 Video Game Boss Fights More Frustrating Than Fun appeared first on Den of Geek.

    For the past 20 years, we sure have spent a lot of time imagining the end of the world. From The Hunger Games to The Walking Dead to Snowpiercer, pop culture has been obsessed with describing the fall of civilization and the bloody aftermath that follows. Generally, these stories follow a pretty familiar pattern, with fleeting moments of safety and kindness interrupted by violence and humanity at its worst.

    But the first trailer for The Dog Stars suggests that Ridley Scott has something else in mind. The trailer introduces Jacob Elordi as Hig, a pilot living after the fall of civilization with his dog, the one remnant of his happy marriage in the before-times. While his partner Bangley (Josh Brolin) has a heart cold enough to survive, Hig desires something more, and may find it with medic Cima (Margaret Qualley). Set to a slower version of Van Morrison’s “Into the Mystic,” the trailer is all optimism and hope, despite the cruel surroundings.

    Hope is built into the source material, the 2012 novel by Peter Heller. The book became a hit not just because it met the expectations of the post-apocalyptic genre, including depictions of the way humans can mistreat one another, but also because of its humor and its poetic depiction of a soulful hero. If Scott can translate those elements to screen, then The Dog Stars may be able to add another hit to his incredible career.

    cnx.cmd.push(function() {
    cnx({
    playerId: “106e33c0-3911-473c-b599-b1426db57530”,

    }).render(“0270c398a82f44f49c23c16122516796”);
    });

    The Dog Stars‘s timing couldn’t be better, as moviegoers are ready to find hope at the end of the world. Based on the novel by Andy Weir. Project Hail Mary has been a favorite among audiences precisely because it sets a delightful buddy comedy between Ryan Gosling and his puppet pal against the backdrop of impending doom. That movie suggests that the apocalypse can be canceled if you’ve got a good friend by your side.

    But, of course, Project Hail Mary is directed by Phil Lord and Christopher Miller, two filmmakers known for their carefree projects. The same definitely cannot be said of Ridley Scott. Even before he became the delightfully grouchy old man he is today, Scott had no problem getting bleak, as demonstrated by the company putting profits over people in Alien, the general dourness of Blade Runner, and the military incompetence on display in Black Hawk Down. Even those who find some triumph in the ending of Thelma & Louise have to acknowledge that the duo does drive off a cliff.

    That said, Scott did helm The Martian, an optimistic adventure also based on a Weir book. If Scott can stay in that tone for The Dog Stars then he can continue to give us hope in hard times, and maybe score another box office hit for himself.

    The Dog Stars arrives in theaters on August 28, 2026.

    The post Ridley Scott’s The Dog Stars Trailer Imagines a Hopeful Post-Apocalypse appeared first on Den of Geek.

  • 15 Movies That Went the ‘Unsettling’ Route for No Reason

    15 Movies That Went the ‘Unsettling’ Route for No Reason

    Sometimes movies try to push boundaries by going darker, stranger, or more unsettling than expected. When it works, it can elevate a story into something bold and memorable. But other times, that shift in tone just doesn’t work. Whether it’s a sudden stylistic change, bizarre narrative choices, or moments that feel out of place, these films took a turn that didn’t fully land with audiences. Here are some movies that leaned into the unsettling side, but maybe didn’t need to.

    The post 15 Movies That Went the ‘Unsettling’ Route for No Reason appeared first on Den of Geek.

    For the past 20 years, we sure have spent a lot of time imagining the end of the world. From The Hunger Games to The Walking Dead to Snowpiercer, pop culture has been obsessed with describing the fall of civilization and the bloody aftermath that follows. Generally, these stories follow a pretty familiar pattern, with fleeting moments of safety and kindness interrupted by violence and humanity at its worst.

    But the first trailer for The Dog Stars suggests that Ridley Scott has something else in mind. The trailer introduces Jacob Elordi as Hig, a pilot living after the fall of civilization with his dog, the one remnant of his happy marriage in the before-times. While his partner Bangley (Josh Brolin) has a heart cold enough to survive, Hig desires something more, and may find it with medic Cima (Margaret Qualley). Set to a slower version of Van Morrison’s “Into the Mystic,” the trailer is all optimism and hope, despite the cruel surroundings.

    Hope is built into the source material, the 2012 novel by Peter Heller. The book became a hit not just because it met the expectations of the post-apocalyptic genre, including depictions of the way humans can mistreat one another, but also because of its humor and its poetic depiction of a soulful hero. If Scott can translate those elements to screen, then The Dog Stars may be able to add another hit to his incredible career.

    cnx.cmd.push(function() {
    cnx({
    playerId: “106e33c0-3911-473c-b599-b1426db57530”,

    }).render(“0270c398a82f44f49c23c16122516796”);
    });

    The Dog Stars‘s timing couldn’t be better, as moviegoers are ready to find hope at the end of the world. Based on the novel by Andy Weir. Project Hail Mary has been a favorite among audiences precisely because it sets a delightful buddy comedy between Ryan Gosling and his puppet pal against the backdrop of impending doom. That movie suggests that the apocalypse can be canceled if you’ve got a good friend by your side.

    But, of course, Project Hail Mary is directed by Phil Lord and Christopher Miller, two filmmakers known for their carefree projects. The same definitely cannot be said of Ridley Scott. Even before he became the delightfully grouchy old man he is today, Scott had no problem getting bleak, as demonstrated by the company putting profits over people in Alien, the general dourness of Blade Runner, and the military incompetence on display in Black Hawk Down. Even those who find some triumph in the ending of Thelma & Louise have to acknowledge that the duo does drive off a cliff.

    That said, Scott did helm The Martian, an optimistic adventure also based on a Weir book. If Scott can stay in that tone for The Dog Stars then he can continue to give us hope in hard times, and maybe score another box office hit for himself.

    The Dog Stars arrives in theaters on August 28, 2026.

    The post Ridley Scott’s The Dog Stars Trailer Imagines a Hopeful Post-Apocalypse appeared first on Den of Geek.

  • 16 Movies That Feel Like They’re Missing Crucial Scenes

    16 Movies That Feel Like They’re Missing Crucial Scenes

    There are times where a movie rushes past a plot point and, as audience members, we often feel confused as to how things ended up where they are. Motivations might suddenly change or characters arrive at destinations without a clear journey. This feeling can come from actual deleted scenes, or from the feeling that some connective tissue was missing.

    Whatever the case, these films aren’t bad per se, but do feel like something is missing. They left us trying to fill the gaps on our own, wondering what happened in the supposed scenes that never made it to screen.

    The post 16 Movies That Feel Like They’re Missing Crucial Scenes appeared first on Den of Geek.

    For the past 20 years, we sure have spent a lot of time imagining the end of the world. From The Hunger Games to The Walking Dead to Snowpiercer, pop culture has been obsessed with describing the fall of civilization and the bloody aftermath that follows. Generally, these stories follow a pretty familiar pattern, with fleeting moments of safety and kindness interrupted by violence and humanity at its worst.

    But the first trailer for The Dog Stars suggests that Ridley Scott has something else in mind. The trailer introduces Jacob Elordi as Hig, a pilot living after the fall of civilization with his dog, the one remnant of his happy marriage in the before-times. While his partner Bangley (Josh Brolin) has a heart cold enough to survive, Hig desires something more, and may find it with medic Cima (Margaret Qualley). Set to a slower version of Van Morrison’s “Into the Mystic,” the trailer is all optimism and hope, despite the cruel surroundings.

    Hope is built into the source material, the 2012 novel by Peter Heller. The book became a hit not just because it met the expectations of the post-apocalyptic genre, including depictions of the way humans can mistreat one another, but also because of its humor and its poetic depiction of a soulful hero. If Scott can translate those elements to screen, then The Dog Stars may be able to add another hit to his incredible career.

    cnx.cmd.push(function() {
    cnx({
    playerId: “106e33c0-3911-473c-b599-b1426db57530”,

    }).render(“0270c398a82f44f49c23c16122516796”);
    });

    The Dog Stars‘s timing couldn’t be better, as moviegoers are ready to find hope at the end of the world. Based on the novel by Andy Weir. Project Hail Mary has been a favorite among audiences precisely because it sets a delightful buddy comedy between Ryan Gosling and his puppet pal against the backdrop of impending doom. That movie suggests that the apocalypse can be canceled if you’ve got a good friend by your side.

    But, of course, Project Hail Mary is directed by Phil Lord and Christopher Miller, two filmmakers known for their carefree projects. The same definitely cannot be said of Ridley Scott. Even before he became the delightfully grouchy old man he is today, Scott had no problem getting bleak, as demonstrated by the company putting profits over people in Alien, the general dourness of Blade Runner, and the military incompetence on display in Black Hawk Down. Even those who find some triumph in the ending of Thelma & Louise have to acknowledge that the duo does drive off a cliff.

    That said, Scott did helm The Martian, an optimistic adventure also based on a Weir book. If Scott can stay in that tone for The Dog Stars then he can continue to give us hope in hard times, and maybe score another box office hit for himself.

    The Dog Stars arrives in theaters on August 28, 2026.

    The post Ridley Scott’s The Dog Stars Trailer Imagines a Hopeful Post-Apocalypse appeared first on Den of Geek.

  • Jonathan Frakes Weighs In on the State of Modern Star Trek

    Jonathan Frakes Weighs In on the State of Modern Star Trek

    It’s a time of transition in the world of Star Trek. The sci-fi franchise is celebrating its 60th anniversary this year, but its future feels a whole lot more uncertain than such a significant milestone would normally imply. Star Trek: Strange New Worlds has wrapped filming on its fifth and final season. Star Trek: Starfleet […]

    The post Jonathan Frakes Weighs In on the State of Modern Star Trek appeared first on Den of Geek.

    For the past 20 years, we sure have spent a lot of time imagining the end of the world. From The Hunger Games to The Walking Dead to Snowpiercer, pop culture has been obsessed with describing the fall of civilization and the bloody aftermath that follows. Generally, these stories follow a pretty familiar pattern, with fleeting moments of safety and kindness interrupted by violence and humanity at its worst.

    But the first trailer for The Dog Stars suggests that Ridley Scott has something else in mind. The trailer introduces Jacob Elordi as Hig, a pilot living after the fall of civilization with his dog, the one remnant of his happy marriage in the before-times. While his partner Bangley (Josh Brolin) has a heart cold enough to survive, Hig desires something more, and may find it with medic Cima (Margaret Qualley). Set to a slower version of Van Morrison’s “Into the Mystic,” the trailer is all optimism and hope, despite the cruel surroundings.

    Hope is built into the source material, the 2012 novel by Peter Heller. The book became a hit not just because it met the expectations of the post-apocalyptic genre, including depictions of the way humans can mistreat one another, but also because of its humor and its poetic depiction of a soulful hero. If Scott can translate those elements to screen, then The Dog Stars may be able to add another hit to his incredible career.

    cnx.cmd.push(function() {
    cnx({
    playerId: “106e33c0-3911-473c-b599-b1426db57530”,

    }).render(“0270c398a82f44f49c23c16122516796”);
    });

    The Dog Stars‘s timing couldn’t be better, as moviegoers are ready to find hope at the end of the world. Based on the novel by Andy Weir. Project Hail Mary has been a favorite among audiences precisely because it sets a delightful buddy comedy between Ryan Gosling and his puppet pal against the backdrop of impending doom. That movie suggests that the apocalypse can be canceled if you’ve got a good friend by your side.

    But, of course, Project Hail Mary is directed by Phil Lord and Christopher Miller, two filmmakers known for their carefree projects. The same definitely cannot be said of Ridley Scott. Even before he became the delightfully grouchy old man he is today, Scott had no problem getting bleak, as demonstrated by the company putting profits over people in Alien, the general dourness of Blade Runner, and the military incompetence on display in Black Hawk Down. Even those who find some triumph in the ending of Thelma & Louise have to acknowledge that the duo does drive off a cliff.

    That said, Scott did helm The Martian, an optimistic adventure also based on a Weir book. If Scott can stay in that tone for The Dog Stars then he can continue to give us hope in hard times, and maybe score another box office hit for himself.

    The Dog Stars arrives in theaters on August 28, 2026.

    The post Ridley Scott’s The Dog Stars Trailer Imagines a Hopeful Post-Apocalypse appeared first on Den of Geek.

  • The Mandalorian & Grogu Trailer Teases Baby Yoda vs. Babu Frik in the Cutest Lil’ Battle Ever

    The Mandalorian & Grogu Trailer Teases Baby Yoda vs. Babu Frik in the Cutest Lil’ Battle Ever

    Star Wars fans are nothing if not forgiving. They have gone from screaming about how George Lucas has ruined their childhood to embracing the prequels as really good, actually. They’ve gone from feeling embarrassment whenever The Holiday Special is mentioned to cheering when Life Day gets name-dropped in official releases. And they even admit that […]

    The post The Mandalorian & Grogu Trailer Teases Baby Yoda vs. Babu Frik in the Cutest Lil’ Battle Ever appeared first on Den of Geek.

    For the past 20 years, we sure have spent a lot of time imagining the end of the world. From The Hunger Games to The Walking Dead to Snowpiercer, pop culture has been obsessed with describing the fall of civilization and the bloody aftermath that follows. Generally, these stories follow a pretty familiar pattern, with fleeting moments of safety and kindness interrupted by violence and humanity at its worst.

    But the first trailer for The Dog Stars suggests that Ridley Scott has something else in mind. The trailer introduces Jacob Elordi as Hig, a pilot living after the fall of civilization with his dog, the one remnant of his happy marriage in the before-times. While his partner Bangley (Josh Brolin) has a heart cold enough to survive, Hig desires something more, and may find it with medic Cima (Margaret Qualley). Set to a slower version of Van Morrison’s “Into the Mystic,” the trailer is all optimism and hope, despite the cruel surroundings.

    Hope is built into the source material, the 2012 novel by Peter Heller. The book became a hit not just because it met the expectations of the post-apocalyptic genre, including depictions of the way humans can mistreat one another, but also because of its humor and its poetic depiction of a soulful hero. If Scott can translate those elements to screen, then The Dog Stars may be able to add another hit to his incredible career.

    cnx.cmd.push(function() {
    cnx({
    playerId: “106e33c0-3911-473c-b599-b1426db57530”,

    }).render(“0270c398a82f44f49c23c16122516796”);
    });

    The Dog Stars‘s timing couldn’t be better, as moviegoers are ready to find hope at the end of the world. Based on the novel by Andy Weir. Project Hail Mary has been a favorite among audiences precisely because it sets a delightful buddy comedy between Ryan Gosling and his puppet pal against the backdrop of impending doom. That movie suggests that the apocalypse can be canceled if you’ve got a good friend by your side.

    But, of course, Project Hail Mary is directed by Phil Lord and Christopher Miller, two filmmakers known for their carefree projects. The same definitely cannot be said of Ridley Scott. Even before he became the delightfully grouchy old man he is today, Scott had no problem getting bleak, as demonstrated by the company putting profits over people in Alien, the general dourness of Blade Runner, and the military incompetence on display in Black Hawk Down. Even those who find some triumph in the ending of Thelma & Louise have to acknowledge that the duo does drive off a cliff.

    That said, Scott did helm The Martian, an optimistic adventure also based on a Weir book. If Scott can stay in that tone for The Dog Stars then he can continue to give us hope in hard times, and maybe score another box office hit for himself.

    The Dog Stars arrives in theaters on August 28, 2026.

    The post Ridley Scott’s The Dog Stars Trailer Imagines a Hopeful Post-Apocalypse appeared first on Den of Geek.