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  • Design Dialects: Breaking the Rules, Not the System

    Design Dialects: Breaking the Rules, Not the System

    “Language is not merely a set of unrelated sounds, clauses, rules, and meanings; it is a totally coherent system bound to context and behavior.” — Kenneth L. Pike

    The web has accents. So should our design systems.

    Design Systems as Living Languages

    Design systems aren’t component libraries—they’re living languages. Tokens are phonemes, components are words, patterns are phrases, layouts are sentences. The conversations we build with users become the stories our products tell.

    But here’s what we’ve forgotten: the more fluently a language is spoken, the more accents it can support without losing meaning. English in Scotland differs from English in Sydney, yet both are unmistakably English. The language adapts to context while preserving core meaning. This couldn’t be more obvious to me, a Brazilian Portuguese speaker, who learned English with an American accent, and lives in Sydney.

    Our design systems must work the same way. Rigid adherence to visual rules creates brittle systems that break under contextual pressure. Fluent systems bend without breaking.

    Consistency becomes a prison

    The promise of design systems was simple: consistent components would accelerate development and unify experiences. But as systems matured and products grew more complex, that promise has become a prison. Teams file “exception” requests by the hundreds. Products launch with workarounds instead of system components. Designers spend more time defending consistency than solving user problems.

    Our design systems must learn to speak dialects.

    A design dialect is a systematic adaptation of a design system that maintains core principles while developing new patterns for specific contexts. Unlike one-off customizations or brand themes, dialects preserve the system’s essential grammar while expanding its vocabulary to serve different users, environments, or constraints.

    When Perfect Consistency Fails

    At Booking.com, I learned this lesson the hard way. We A/B-tested everything—color, copy, button shapes, even logo colors. As a professional with a graphic design education and experience building brand style guides, I found this shocking. While everyone fell in love with Airbnb’s pristine design system, Booking grew into a giant without ever considering visual consistency.  

    The chaos taught me something profound: consistency isn’t ROI; solved problems are.

    At Shopify. Polaris () was our crown jewel—a mature design language perfect for merchants on laptops. As a product team, we were expected to adopt Polaris as-is. Then my fulfillment team hit an “Oh, Ship!” moment, as we faced the challenge of building an app for warehouse pickers using our interface on shared, battered Android scanners in dim aisles, wearing thick gloves, scanning dozens of items per minute, many with limited levels of English understanding.

    Task completion with standard Polaris: 0%.

    Every component that worked beautifully for merchants failed completely for pickers. White backgrounds created glare. 44px tap targets were invisible to gloved fingers. Sentence-case labels took too long to parse. Multi-step flows confused non-native speakers.

    We faced a choice: abandon Polaris entirely, or teach it to speak warehouse.

    The Birth of a Dialect

    We chose evolution over revolution. Working within Polaris’s core principles—clarity, efficiency, consistency—we developed what we now call a design dialect:

    ConstraintFluent MoveRationale
    Glare & low lightDark surfaces + light textReduce glare on low-DPI screens
    Gloves & haste90px tap targets (~2cm)Accommodate thick gloves
    MultilingualSingle-task screens, plain languageReduce cognitive load

    Result: Task completion jumped from 0% to 100%. Onboarding time dropped from three weeks to one shift.

    This wasn’t customization or theming—this was a dialect: a systematic adaptation that maintained Polaris’s core grammar while developing new vocabulary for a specific context. Polaris hadn’t failed; it had learned to speak warehouse.

    The Flexibility Framework

    At Atlassian, working on the Jira platform—itself a system within the larger Atlassian system—I pushed for formalizing this insight. With dozens of products sharing a design language across different codebases, we needed systematic flexibility so we built directly into our ways of working. The old model—exception requests and special approvals—was failing at scale.

    We developed the Flexibility Framework to help designers define how flexible they wanted their components to be:

    TierActionOwnership
    ConsistentAdopt unchangedPlatform locks design + code
    OpinionatedAdapt within boundsPlatform provides smart defaults, products customize
    FlexibleExtend freelyPlatform defines behavior, products own presentation

    During a navigation redesign, we tiered every element. Logo and global search stayed Consistent. Breadcrumbs and contextual actions became Flexible. Product teams could immediately see where innovation was welcome and where consistency mattered.

    The Decision Ladder

    Flexibility needs boundaries. We created a simple ladder for evaluating when rules should bend:

    Good: Ship with existing system components. Fast, consistent, proven.

    Better: Stretch a component slightly. Document the change. Contribute improvements back to the system for all to use.

    Best: Prototype the ideal experience first. If user testing validates the benefit, update the system to support it.

    The key question: “Which option lets users succeed fastest?”

    Rules are tools, not relics.

    Unity Beats Uniformity

    Gmail, Drive, and Maps are unmistakably Google—yet each speaks with its own accent. They achieve unity through shared principles, not cloned components. One extra week of debate over button color costs roughly $30K in engineer time.

    Unity is a brand outcome; fluency is a user outcome. When the two clash, side with the user.

    Governance Without Gates

    How do you maintain coherence while enabling dialects? Treat your system like a living vocabulary:

    Document every deviation – e.g., dialects/warehouse.md with before/after screenshots and rationale.

    Promote shared patterns – when three teams adopt a dialect independently, review it for core inclusion.

    Deprecate with context – retire old idioms via flags and migration notes, never a big-bang purge.

    A living dictionary scales better than a frozen rulebook.

    Start Small: Your First Dialect

    Ready to introduce dialects? Start with one broken experience:

    This week: Find one user flow where perfect consistency blocks task completion. Could be mobile users struggling with desktop-sized components, or accessibility needs your standard patterns don’t address.

    Document the context: What makes standard patterns fail here? Environmental constraints? User capabilities? Task urgency?

    Design one systematic change: Focus on behavior over aesthetics. If gloves are the problem, bigger targets aren’t “”breaking the system””—they’re serving the user. Earn the variations and make them intentional.

    Test and measure: Does the change improve task completion? Time to productivity? User satisfaction?

    Show the savings: If that dialect frees even half a sprint, fluency has paid for itself.

    Beyond the Component Library

    We’re not managing design systems anymore—we’re cultivating design languages. Languages that grow with their speakers. Languages that develop accents without losing meaning. Languages that serve human needs over aesthetic ideals.

    The warehouse workers who went from 0% to 100% task completion didn’t care that our buttons broke the style guide. They cared that the buttons finally worked.

    Your users feel the same way. Give your system permission to speak their language.

  • Design for Amiability: Lessons from Vienna

    Design for Amiability: Lessons from Vienna

    Today’s web is not always an amiable place. Sites greet you with a popover that demands assent to their cookie policy, and leave you with Taboola ads promising “One Weird Trick!” to cure your ailments. Social media sites are tuned for engagement, and few things are more engaging than a fight. Today it seems that people want to quarrel; I have seen flame wars among birders.  

    These tensions are often at odds with a site’s goals. If we are providing support and advice to customers, we don’t want those customers to wrangle with each other. If we offer news about the latest research, we want readers to feel at ease; if we promote upcoming marches, we want our core supporters to feel comfortable and we want curious newcomers to feel welcome. 

    In a study for a conference on the History of the Web, I looked to the origins of Computer Science in Vienna (1928-1934)  for a case study of the importance of amiability in a research community and the disastrous consequences of its loss. That story has interesting implications for web environments that promote amiable interaction among disparate, difficult (and sometimes disagreeable) people.

    The Vienna Circle

    Though people had been thinking about calculating engines and thinking machines from antiquity, Computing really got going in Depression-era Vienna.  The people who worked out the theory had no interest in building machines; they wanted to puzzle out the limits of reason in the absence of divine authority. If we could not rely on God or Aristotle to tell us how to think, could we instead build arguments that were self-contained and demonstrably correct? Can we be sure that mathematics is consistent? Are there things that are true but that cannot be expressed in language? 

    The core ideas were worked out in the weekly meetings (Thursdays at 6) of a group remembered as the Vienna Circle. They got together in the office of Professor Moritz Schlick at the University of Vienna to discuss problems in philosophy, math, and language. The intersection of physics and philosophy had long been a specialty of this Vienna department, and this work had placed them among the world leaders.  Schlick’s colleague Hans Hahn was a central participant, and by 1928 Hahn brought along his graduate students Karl Menger and Kurt Gödel. Other frequent participants included philosopher Rudolf Carnap, psychologist Karl Popper, economist Ludwig von Mises (brought by his brother Frederick, a physicist),  graphic designer Otto Neurath (inventor of infographics), and architect Josef Frank (brought by his physicist brother, Phillip).  Out-of-town visitors often joined, including the young Johnny von Neumann, Alfred Tarski, and the irascible Ludwig Wittgenstein. 

    When Schlick’s office grew too dim, participants adjourned to a nearby café for additional discussion with an even larger circle of participants.  This convivial circle was far from unique.  An intersecting circle–Neurath, von Mises, Oskar Morgenstern–established the Austrian School of free-market economics. There were theatrical circles (Peter Lorre, Hedy Lamarr, Max Reinhardt), and literary circles. The café was where things happened.

    The interdisciplinarity of the group posed real challenges of temperament and understanding. Personalities were often a challenge. Gödel was convinced people were trying to poison him. Architect Josef Frank depended on contracts for public housing, which Mises opposed as wasteful. Wittgenstein’s temper had lost him his job as a secondary school teacher, and for some of these years he maintained a detailed list of whom he was willing to meet. Neurath was eager to detect muddled thinking and would interrupt a speaker with a shouted “Metaphysics!” The continuing amity of these meetings was facilitated by the personality of their leader, Moritz Schlick, who would be remembered as notably adept in keeping disagreements from becoming quarrels.

    In the Café

    The Viennese café of this era was long remembered as a particularly good place to argue with your friends, to read, and to write. Built to serve an imperial capital, the cafés found themselves with too much space and too few customers now that the Empire was gone. There was no need to turn tables: a café could only survive by coaxing customers to linger. Perhaps they would order another coffee, or one of their friends might drop by. One could play chess, or billiards, or read newspapers from abroad. Coffee was invariably served with a glass of purified spring water, still a novelty in an era in which most water was still unsafe to drink. That water glass would be refilled indefinitely. 

    In the basement of one café, the poet Jura Soyfer staged “The End Of The World,” a musical comedy in which Professor Peep has discovered a comet heading for earth.

    Prof. Peep: The comet is going to destroy everybody!

    Hitler:  Destroying everybody is my business.

    Of course, coffee can be prepared in many ways, and the Viennese café developed a broad vocabulary to represent precisely how one preferred to drink it: melange, Einspänner, Brauner, Schwarzer, Kapuziner. This extensive customization, with correspondingly esoteric conventions of service, established the café as a comfortable and personal third space, a neutral ground in which anyone who could afford a coffee would be welcome. Viennese of this era were fastidious in their use of personal titles, of which an abundance were in common use. Café waiters greeted regular customers with titles too, but were careful to address their patrons with titles a notch or two greater than they deserved. A graduate student would be Doktor, an unpaid postdoc Professor.  This assurance mattered all the more because so many members of the Circle (and so many other Viennese) came from elsewhere: Carnap from Wuppertal, Gödel from Brno, von Neumann from Budapest. No one was going to make fun of your clothes, mannerisms, or accent. Your friends wouldn’t be bothered by the pram in the hall. Everyone shared a Germanic Austrian literary and philosophical culture, not least those whose ancestors had been Eastern European Jews who knew that culture well, having read all about it in books.

    The amiability of the café circle was enhanced by its openness. Because the circle sometimes extended to architects and actors, people could feel less constrained to admit shortfalls in their understanding. It was soon discovered that marble tabletops made a useful surface for pencil sketches, serving all as an improvised and accessible blackboard.

    Comedies like “The End Of The World” and fictional newspaper sketches or feuilletons of writers like Joseph Roth and Stefan Zweig served as a second defense against disagreeable or churlish behavior. The knowledge that, if one got carried away, a parody of one’s remarks might shortly appear in Neue Freie Presse surely helped Professor Schlick keep matters in hand.

    The End Of Red Vienna

    Though Austria’s government drifted to the right after the War, Vienna’s city council had been Socialist, dedicated to public housing based on user-centered design, and embracing  ambitious programs of public outreach and adult education. In 1934 the Socialists lost a local election, and this era soon came to its end as the new administration focused on the imagined threat of the International Jewish Conspiracy. Most members of the Circle fled within months: von Neumann to Princeton, Neurath to Holland and Oxford, Popper to New Zealand, Carnap to Chicago. Prof. Schlick was murdered on the steps of the University by a student outraged by his former association with Jews.  Jura Soyfer, who wrote “The End Of The World,” died in Buchenwald.

    In 1939, von Neumann finally convinced Gödel to accept a job in Princeton. Gödel was required to pay large fines to emigrate. The officer in charge of these fees would look back on this as the best posting of his career; his name was Eichmann.

    Design for Amiability

    An impressive literature recounts those discussions and the environment that facilitated the development of computing. How can we design for amiability?  This is not just a matter of choosing rounded typefaces and a cheerful pastel palette. I believe we may identify eight distinct issues that exert design forces in usefully amiable directions.

    Seriousness: The Vienna Circle was wrestling with a notoriously difficult book—Wittgenstein’s Tractus Logico-Philosophicus—and a catalog of outstanding open questions in mathematics. They were concerned with consequential problems, not merely scoring points for debating. Constant reminders that the questions you are considering matter—not only that they are consequential or that those opposing you are scoundrels—help promote amity.

    Empiricism: The characteristic approach of the Vienna Circle demanded that knowledge be grounded either in direct observation or in rigorous reasoning. Disagreement, when it arose, could be settled by observation or by proof. If neither seemed ready to hand, the matter could not be settled. On these terms, one can seldom if ever demolish an opposing argument, and trolling is pointless.

    Abstraction: Disputes grow worse when losing the argument entails lost face or lost jobs. The Vienna Circle’s focus on theory—the limits of mathematics, the capability of language—promoted amity. Without seriousness, abstraction could have been merely academic, but the limits of reason and the consistency of mathematics were clearly serious.

    Formality: The punctilious demeanor of waiters and the elaborated rituals of coffee service helped to establish orderly attitudes amongst the argumentative participants. This stands in contrast to the contemptuous sneer that now dominates social media.  

    Schlamperei: Members of the Vienna Circle maintained a global correspondence, and they knew their work was at the frontier of research. Still, this was Vienna, at the margins of Europe: old-fashioned, frumpy, and dingy. Many participants came from even more obscure backwaters. Most or all harbored the suspicion that they were really schleppers, and a tinge of the ridiculous helped to moderate tempers. The director of “The End Of The World” had to pass the hat for money to purchase a moon for the set, and thought it was funny enough to write up for publication.

    Openness: All sorts of people were involved in discussion, anyone might join in. Each week would bring different participants. Fluid borders reduce tension, and provide opportunities to broaden the range of discussion and the terms of engagement. Low entrance friction was characteristic of the café: anyone could come, and if you came twice you were virtually a regular. Permeable boundaries and café culture made it easier for moderating influences to draw in raconteurs and storytellers to defuse awkward moments, and Vienna’s cafés had no shortage of humorists. Openness counteracts the suspicion that promoters of amiability are exerting censorship.

    Parody: The environs of the Circle—the university office and the café—were unmistakably public. There were writers about, some of them renowned humorists. The prospect that one’s bad taste or bad behavior might be ridiculed in print kept discussion within bounds. The sanction of public humiliation, however, was itself made mild by the veneer of fiction; even if you got a little carried away and a character based on you made a splash in some newspaper fiction, it wasn’t the end of the world.

    Engagement: The subject matter was important to the participants, but it was esoteric: it did not matter very much to their mothers or their siblings. A small stumble or a minor humiliation could be shrugged off in ways that major media confrontations cannot.

    I believe it is notable that this environment was designed to promote amiability through several different voices.  The café waiter flattered each newcomer and served everyone, and also kept out local pickpockets and drunks who would be mere disruptions. Schlick and other regulars kept discussion moving and on track. The fiction writers and raconteurs—perhaps the most peripheral of the participants—kept people in a good mood and reminded them that bad behavior could make anyone ridiculous.  Crucially, each of these voices were human: you could reason with them. Algorithmic or AI moderators, however clever, are seldom perceived as reasonable. The café circles had no central authority or Moderator against whom everyone’s resentments might be focused. Even after the disaster of 1934, what people remembered were those cheerful arguments.

  • AI and the Future of Marketing: Strategy, Human Value, and the CMO Role

    AI and the Future of Marketing: Strategy, Human Value, and the CMO Role

    AI and the Future of Marketing: Strategy, Human Value, and the CMO Role written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

    Catch the full episode: Episode Overview In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, host John Jantsch is joined by Peter Benei, marketing leader and co‑founder of AI Ready CMO. They explore how artificial intelligence is reshaping marketing beyond tools, why strategic thinking and human judgment will matter more than ever, and how marketers […]

    AI and the Future of Marketing: Strategy, Human Value, and the CMO Role written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

    Catch the full episode:

    Peter BeneiEpisode Overview

    In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, host John Jantsch is joined by Peter Benei, marketing leader and co‑founder of AI Ready CMO. They explore how artificial intelligence is reshaping marketing beyond tools, why strategic thinking and human judgment will matter more than ever, and how marketers and organizations need to adapt. Benei shares his grounded perspective on what AI will replace, what it won’t, and how roles like CMO are evolving in an AI‑driven landscape.

    Guest Bio

    Peter Benei is a seasoned marketing strategist with over 20 years of experience serving as CMO for tech scale‑ups and startups. Along with Torsten Sandor, he co-founded AI Ready CMO, a platform and newsletter designed to help marketing leaders adopt AI through strategic frameworks, case studies, and community learning. His approach focuses on practical adoption of AI, emphasizing strategy and human judgment over hype.

    Key Takeaways

    • AI Is Not Just Another Tool: AI’s impact is broader than previous marketing innovations—it changes operational workflows and organizational models.
    • What AI Will Change and What It Won’t: Content production will be automated, but human oversight, taste, and strategic judgment remain crucial.
    • Evolving Roles: CMOs will function as orchestrators of AI-enhanced workflows. Routine content roles may be replaced or reshaped.
    • Education in the AI Era: Liberal arts degrees and soft skills could gain renewed value for critical thinking and creativity.
    • Tool Consolidation: Major platforms like Google and Microsoft may absorb many single-purpose AI tools. Custom tool-building is easier than ever.

    Great Moments (Timestamped)

    • 00:38 — AI vs Past Marketing Innovations
    • 03:08 — Strategic vs Hype‑Driven AI Adoption
    • 06:50 — What Will Change in Marketing Production
    • 08:56 — Human Skills That Remain Vital
    • 11:18 — New Resource Requirements in Marketing
    • 12:17 — Hiring for Judgment and Taste
    • 17:22 — The CMO of the Future
    • 20:04 — Consolidation of AI Tools
    • 22:45 — Example: AI‑Built Content Repurposing App

    Inspiring Quotes

    “You don’t need to dramatize or panic around AI. You just need to adapt.”

    “If production is not our job anymore, then strategy becomes understanding human needs with empathy and designing the process to achieve the goal.”

    “AI highlighted something uncomfortable: how few of us actually have taste and how much content was just mediocre.”

    “Now you don’t need massive resources. You need a laptop, an idea, judgment, and taste. Things AI can’t replace.”

    Resources

    Subscribe to the daily newsletter at AIReadyCMO.com for actionable insights on AI in marketing.

     

     

    Sponsored by:

    Duct Tape Marketing Strategy First Certification: For consultants, agencies, and fractional CMOs ready to lead with strategy.Join our 3-day live Duct Tape Marketing Certification and license the proven Strategy First system, tools, and frameworks used for 30 years.Get 1:1 support and join a community of serious marketers.Learn more at dtm.world/certify

    John Jantsch (00:01.442)

    Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch and my guest today is Peter Benei. He is a marketing leader and strategist with 20 plus years of experience as a CMO for tech scale-ups and startups. He co-founded AI Ready CMO, a platform and newsletter focused on helping marketing leaders adopt AI strategically, not just tool by tool, but through frameworks, case studies and community learning.

    Peter Benei (00:01.57)

    Thanks.

    John Jantsch (00:30.39)

    So guess what we’re going to talk about today? AI. Peter, welcome to the show.

    Peter Benei (00:34.634)

    Welcome and thanks for inviting me.

    John Jantsch (00:38.028)

    So given that you and I were just talking off air, you know, I’ve got 30 plus years, you’ve got 20 plus years, how in your mind has, does AI or the advent of AI different than say, websites and social media and search, you know, that kind of came along as tool? Would you say that it’s just another flavor or is it fundamentally different?

    Peter Benei (00:43.341)

    Yeah.

    Peter Benei (01:04.052)

    both, I guess. I had my own agency as well. Jesus, 20 years ago. and it was a social media agency. So at that time it was like, so Facebook business pages just got introduced and everyone was talking about the clue train manifesto markets are conversations and you know, this kind of stuff, social media, web two. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the market or Brian Solis.

    John Jantsch (01:05.879)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (01:19.584)

    Yeah.

    John Jantsch (01:24.384)

    Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

    Peter Benei (01:33.262)

    Yeah, he was just about talking about the conversational prism and I don’t know. So everyone was talking about like, know, social media is a thing. And we had this agency, which was a social media agency. But again, that was a new thing. I don’t really think that the whole AI, whatever it is right now is…

    John Jantsch (01:33.432)

    Of course, yeah, Brian’s been on the show.

    Peter Benei (02:02.4)

    is new in a sense of tools and technology for marketers. These are just things that we need to learn and adapt to in general sense, like we did for, I don’t know, Facebook business pages at that time or, I don’t know, Squarespace websites. you can drag and drop websites again now. That’s interesting. Although I think the business model for agencies and marketing teams will be fundamentally changed

    John Jantsch (02:22.53)

    Yeah.

    Peter Benei (02:32.184)

    because of this new AI tool, AI capabilities, AI agent, whatever, AI. And I think that will be interesting to see. again, agencies also changed and marketing teams also changed 10, five, 20 years ago. So I think we just need to be familiar and open to adapt to this new change. So I don’t…

    John Jantsch (03:00.31)

    Well…

    Peter Benei (03:01.078)

    dramatize or strategize or panic around this. You just need to adapt.

    John Jantsch (03:08.056)

    Yeah, it’s funny. There was a period of time where you had social media marketing agencies and digital marketing agencies, right? It was just like, oh no, we’re this flavor. And now it’s just like, no, it’s all just marketing. Right. So what are the things you write about a lot? And, and I, you know, I’m a subscriber to your newsletter and I really, there are a lot of people out there writing about AI hype, you know, like look at what this thing could do. But I think you guys have take a very,

    Peter Benei (03:12.206)

    Hmm?

    Peter Benei (03:19.693)

    Yes.

    Peter Benei (03:25.944)

    Thank you.

    John Jantsch (03:35.352)

    Like you said, not necessarily a dramatic hype approach, a very almost stand back approach of saying, look, we have to remain strategic. Human beings have a role, but maybe it’s changed. And so I really appreciate that take. So let’s get in a little bit to the changing, like the AI plus strategy, you know, plus humans approach, because there’s certainly a lot of hand wringing right now around all these jobs that are going to be wiped out.

    What are people going to do? So what do you, let’s just divide it. What do you think is going to go away that these tools actually do better than humans? And what do you think is going to actually stay and perhaps not for a long time be replaced by humans or by machines.

    Peter Benei (04:05.486)

    Thanks.

    Peter Benei (04:21.922)

    No, that’s a tempting and also interesting question. One thing that I want to reflect quickly, the focus on non-hype bullshit and sorry for calling that way, non-hype framing of this whole entire new trend was also personal choice of ours with the newsletter, but also a strategic choice as well.

    Obviously everyone is hyping around this whole thing. we are personally, we are getting a little bit older, I guess. And we are just not interested in the, the, in the defocusing of our audiences. So we made the conscious decision to kind of like stand still and observe a little bit more with a strategic eye. So that’s one thing. Second.

    John Jantsch (05:09.921)

    Mm-hmm.

    Peter Benei (05:18.232)

    To your question, I would love to have an answer, but I’m not afraid to say that I don’t know. think during these times that are changing, it’s really hard to know what will happen. And we are just migrating, by the way, the news that are to another platform. And I had to reread the old stuff that we wrote. When I say old, like half a year ago.

    John Jantsch (05:37.858)

    Mm-hmm.

    John Jantsch (05:47.832)

    All right.

    Peter Benei (05:48.174)

    And that will be a context to your answer, by the way. And I just read what we’d wrote like half a year ago and everything was so beginning at that stage still. Everything changed so fast within a couple of months. New tools came out, new concepts introduced to the public. And I’m not talking about like agents, like more like, know.

    John Jantsch (06:04.375)

    Mm-hmm.

    Peter Benei (06:14.818)

    working together with AI, human in the loop, and these kind of stuff. It’s so hard to predict because within this small time frame, everything has changed. I think what we can do to answer this question, and sorry for it, it takes a little bit longer, is that to nail down the basics that we think that it will be changing. And I think there are a couple of things that will change. And one that I’m…

    almost 100 % sure it will change is that production of marketing materials and like marketing production in a sense, like content production, shall we say, will be either fully automated or it will not come with a high barrier of entry. It doesn’t have a high barrier of entry right now either, but it will have like a minimum barrier of entry with AI.

    John Jantsch (06:54.614)

    Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    Peter Benei (07:14.254)

    That means a lot for agencies, by the way, for marketing teams, because we create, mean, like 80 % of our work as marketers are creating content. Now, if the content creation is almost automated by AI, what do we do? Right? That’s the question. Now I don’t have the answer, but I’m sure that we won’t create that much and that amount of content within our workload and work time.

    Second, AI is getting perfect or better, shall we say. It’s always, know, tomorrow’s AI is 10x better than today’s AI. But it’s still not perfect. And the reason why it’s not perfect is that it still needs the human, us, to course, supervise, review, edit, whatever. So I think the…

    human in the loop or human in the addition working with the AI, it will matter for now, for a couple of years at least. And third, we need to think that if production is not our job anymore, but we still need it, then where do we need it? And I think that’s the answer for your question here, that we need to be able to form strategies.

    And what is the strategy, by the way, understanding the client need with empathy and suggest process to achieve the goals. are goals and that’s it. Pretty much that’s the bare bones, simple strategy. How do we produce more? sorry. How do we produce better content? Because production wise, it will be automated, but it still has to be good. We need taste.

    John Jantsch (08:56.45)

    Right.

    John Jantsch (09:09.698)

    Right.

    Peter Benei (09:11.106)

    We need quality, we need judgment, we review supervision. And how do we work better with AI is that if we understand the workflows and the processes as a kind of like operator of the entire show. So I think strategy, like empathy, taste and operational efficiency or workflow knowledge should be…

    and will be important for marketers. And I’m safe to say these.

    John Jantsch (09:44.822)

    Yeah, you, you. Well, and I think you raise a real, I think at least right now, one of the differentiators, the barrier to produce, to producing, quantity is gone. however, I think the barrier to producing quality is still a real differentiator.

    Peter Benei (10:03.042)

    Yeah. Yeah, I agree. agree. And it just, know, AI just like highlighted how not many of us have taste and how not many of us can produce great content and how most of the content that we’ve used so far anyway was, well, wouldn’t say garbage, but like, you know, mediocre. And I think it’s super important to…

    to highlight that previously you needed resources to produce high quality content. So if you wanted to do a Super Bowl level advertising, you needed DDB or or or whoever big agency. If you wanted to do a global media campaign, you needed a media agency or an insane marketing budget to go with that.

    John Jantsch (10:37.901)

    Yes.

    Peter Benei (11:02.638)

    If you wanted to produce a content library of whatever you have, like 100 eBooks or shit, you need 10, 50, whatever, copywriters or marketers to do that. Similarly happening in other industries. So if you wanted to do the new John Wick movie, you needed a Hollywood studio and so on. can go on and on.

    John Jantsch (11:18.338)

    Thanks.

    Peter Benei (11:33.184)

    Now you don’t need these resources. You need a laptop and an idea and I don’t know, hundred dollars for API credits. And pretty much that’s it. That’s it. That’s all you need. And judgment and taste and strategic mindset. And, know, these kinds of stuff that are human in innate human values and abilities, which AI cannot produce.

    John Jantsch (11:36.205)

    Mm-hmm.

    John Jantsch (12:02.658)

    Well, so that begs the question then, if we are going to still have humans involved, do we need different humans? A lot of us. If we built an organization, say, to produce stuff, you know, the copywriters, the graphic designers, that their whole output was the stuff, do we now need to hire for taste and for judgment and for brand intuition?

    Peter Benei (12:17.602)

    Mm-hmm.

    Peter Benei (12:27.83)

    I yes. I’m not the person who will tell you otherwise. And I’m also not the person who is in the business who helps you to do that. But if I would be in the business, I would immediately start some sort of like a training company or anything around that that helps people who have like basic skills through studies. Like, I don’t know.

    John Jantsch (12:28.92)

    the

    Peter Benei (12:57.806)

    creative arts or whatever, and upgrading them to be able to use those skills in a refined manner for multiple purposes. In our case, marketing. So yeah, people and companies should hire Prudence.

    John Jantsch (12:59.661)

    Right.

    John Jantsch (13:13.496)

    And I think I’ve actually seen on your website, aren’t you producing some courses or some master classes or something around those? Yeah, yeah, okay.

    Peter Benei (13:21.302)

    Yeah, we do some workshops. We do some workshops, but we are not a training company. So, so we didn’t within AI ready CMO, if you like pave to go to get a paid member, you obviously have access to some sort of like a workshop training program and some studies, but we are not a training.

    John Jantsch (13:26.551)

    Yeah, yeah.

    John Jantsch (13:40.994)

    Right, right. Yeah, okay. So, would you… If somebody was, I don’t know, maybe coming out of school now or maybe trying to change careers or something, are there some roles or functions that you would say, hey, you should spend your time up-leveling your skills in this area?

    Peter Benei (13:42.924)

    And I don’t want to be a training company.

    Peter Benei (13:52.334)

    Hmm?

    Peter Benei (14:03.608)

    So I’m 44. That will be a long shot, I’m 44 and many of my friends have kids who are like 15 or 10 or 15 or 20 sometimes. And they all talk about the same thing. I like full honesty.

    John Jantsch (14:30.84)

    Mm-hmm.

    Peter Benei (14:33.39)

    They talk about what will these kids will do in five to 10 years, what kind of careers they will pursue and so on and so on. They are families. So I usually talk with the dads, obviously, and they are talking about, I need to send my kid to a university or college or whatever. I live in Europe, so I don’t know, they send it to Vienna or something. And how…

    How should I pick which university they should go in and so on and so on? How should I help them? And they are clueless. And usually the close to good answer that I see, and again, this is a personal opinion, so treat it as is, usually the ones that are sending their kids to some sort of like art, history,

    John Jantsch (15:10.776)

    Mm-hmm.

    Right.

    John Jantsch (15:31.512)

    Mm-hmm.

    Peter Benei (15:32.782)

    Literally something around these like soft things, which we call soft skills or soft studies.

    John Jantsch (15:37.376)

    Mm-hmm.

    John Jantsch (15:41.495)

    Mm-hmm.

    Peter Benei (15:44.692)

    I wouldn’t send my kid to engineering school right now. I wouldn’t send my kid to learn that become a developer or a lawyer or not even a doctor probably. I don’t think that these, I mean, these professions will exist obviously, but it will have a really huge competition that only the finest one will succeed or will be needed.

    but if you have like a general arts degree or something around that, know usually, you know, treated as totally useless. I have one by the way. but still, so I studied history and sociology pretty much useless, I guess, but still. and I think these, these studies might be something that can be valuable because they, they teach you the basics of.

    John Jantsch (16:22.922)

    Right?

    Peter Benei (16:43.64)

    how to read, how to judge aesthetic things, and how to think critically, yes. How to think in context, so like historical context, let’s say. And I think these baseline knowledge skills, let’s say, I wouldn’t call them skills, but these things will be in, yes.

    John Jantsch (16:49.89)

    I to think critically.

    John Jantsch (17:08.704)

    It’s exposure really more than anything else, right? Yeah.

    Peter Benei (17:11.746)

    These will be inherently valuable than knowing the latest legal, whatever it is.

    John Jantsch (17:14.274)

    Yeah, yeah.

    John Jantsch (17:19.308)

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, which can be, yeah, queued up. How about CMOs? Are you, do you see that role going away? Do you see it, you know, changing inside of organizations to where it will not only look different, but it will have a different function?

    Peter Benei (17:22.541)

    Yes.

    Peter Benei (17:38.232)

    So we preach at AERA, the CMO is that the CMO role is becoming more like an orchestrator who is leading and creating these environments of workflows where people work together with AI and AI automation. And from the marketing org chart, like, know, junior, mid-manager, specialist.

    John Jantsch (17:47.81)

    Mm-hmm.

    Peter Benei (18:07.128)

    head off whatever and see. I do think that the CMO role will be the last one who will fall. Juniors probably will have the hardest time, especially, and also mid managers and specialists, because some of them need to pivot into something else because AI will just simply eat their field of expertise there.

    but those people who are able to manage not just people, but workflows together. mixing the soft skills with, I wouldn’t say engineering level skills of workflow engineering, but more like, you know, operational level. I think these people will be valuable and these people will be the CMOs I think. But if you were a CMO and only created the marketing budget and.

    John Jantsch (18:53.516)

    Mm-hmm.

    Peter Benei (19:06.306)

    delegated the tasks and that’s it. Yeah, you probably will have a harder time in the upcoming years and you need to learn workflow efficiency, operational level execute and you know, these kinds of Or if you are on the other side, more like an operational person, you probably need to learn a little bit more soft skills and judgment and taste and you know, these kinds of stuff that we talked about so far.

    John Jantsch (19:35.124)

    So I want end on one kind of, there’s a bit of been a bit of a rant for me and I’m curious where you land on this. I think a lot of people were jumping at, my AI tool stack is these 17 tools because they all do one thing really well. And I think what I’ve said all along is I think the Googles and the Microsofts of the world are going to basically figure out how to build all of those best of class tools into their

    Peter Benei (19:41.774)

    Please.

    Peter Benei (19:51.342)

    Hmm.

    Peter Benei (20:03.448)

    Agree.

    John Jantsch (20:04.696)

    into their work tool that you buy for one price or that you’re already buying that now is just $10 more a month. And they will really kind of wipe out a lot of these one-off tools. I’m curious what you think of that.

    Peter Benei (20:10.926)

    I agree.

    Peter Benei (20:18.094)

    100%. I mean, this will be a hard argument because I 100 % agree with you. I can share you two examples. Two examples and one explanation on why people think that. I mean, especially, know, C level people and decision makers, they love throwing resources on problems. So yeah, they have like a tool.

    John Jantsch (20:43.352)

    Mm-hmm.

    Peter Benei (20:48.174)

    abundance, and they, and they buy shiny new tools every day. that’s fine. We understand it’s obviously not the right call. and even, even they don’t, they know it usually. and the two examples are, are simple ones. One, you actually mentioned off of air that you read the latest article that we, that we published. I mean, it’s not rocket science judge, just a Claude Cowork, came out.

    John Jantsch (21:16.941)

    Yes.

    Peter Benei (21:18.282)

    A funny thing, by the way, did Claude did it. mean, the Anthropic team did it with Claude code within half, one and a half a week. And no line of code were written by any engineers, all AI. So the learning there is that most of the tools will be irrelevant because startups

    John Jantsch (21:29.848)

    Mm.

    John Jantsch (21:34.934)

    Yes.

    Peter Benei (21:45.674)

    And AI tools just die every day because new tools will come out. Also don’t forget that the big ones, Google and the others, they have infinite resources, like infinite. They have infinite training data and AI lives on data. So just like one simple AI feature added to Google ads, let’s say.

    We’ll probably kill 90 % of the AI tools out there right now overnight.

    John Jantsch (22:20.972)

    Well, they also, know, one thing people underestimate, they also have all the hardware.

    Peter Benei (22:25.216)

    And also the hardware. Well, in a sense business, that hardware doesn’t really matter that much, more like the data, but yeah, the hardware is important too. And the second thing is that, well, I’m really proud of it because it happened today. So sorry for sharing it with everyone right now on this podcast, but I built a content repurposing application. You literally, it does…

    John Jantsch (22:26.584)

    So it doesn’t cost them anything.

    John Jantsch (22:35.49)

    Yeah. Yeah.

    John Jantsch (22:45.208)

    You

    Peter Benei (22:54.956)

    A simple thing, you give an RSS feed to the application, in our case, our newsletter. We are only two people. So we don’t have social media managers and stuff. And because most of the content that we do is news-driven, so every day we publish something new. We cannot batch write stuff pre-time. So we only know the content on the same day.

    and we need to share it on X and everywhere. And we spend a lot of time to repurposing this type of content, even if we use AI. So this app actually takes everything that we have, new posts, and repurpose it on different platforms. It self-learns, it does everything. It’s fully automated, it’s amazing. It has a UX, everything.

    and I built it under an hour while I having breakfast at my kitchen table. I’m not kidding. And I don’t know how to code at all. Like I never coded a single line of code ever. And I will probably never will. Claude did it. just why prompting it. So the reason why I’m telling this, thing is that it’s so easy to build up something new now.

    John Jantsch (23:58.336)

    Yeah.

    Peter Benei (24:21.134)

    even for personal use that you probably end up and that’s like a wild guess and more like a futurism. But I might guess that within a year or two, we don’t really even have like small sasses for most companies. People just, you know, ramp up their own applications for their own computer, for their own personal use, for their own agency, for their own clients within an hour.

    John Jantsch (24:21.186)

    Yeah. Right.

    Peter Benei (24:50.508)

    works fine just for them.

    John Jantsch (24:53.016)

    Yes. Yes, yes.

    Peter Benei (24:54.382)

    So it’s interesting. So short answer to your question. mean, don’t really bother subscribing to 20-something AI tools. Probably 95 % of them will be extinct within a year or two and substitute by Gemini or other Google products or whatever. Or second answer, build your own.

    John Jantsch (25:05.237)

    Alright.

    John Jantsch (25:21.632)

    Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I’m curious. And again, you don’t have to answer this. can end on this. But I suspect that Google will build a cowork clone, you know, because you think of all the people have all of their stuff on Google Drive, and not just to be able to say, here, go consume all this. You’ve got to believe that’s coming. Well, Peter, I appreciate you.

    Peter Benei (25:31.853)

    Yeah.

    Peter Benei (25:41.25)

    Yes. And by the way, it’s interesting. Sorry, last sentence. I have to rant about Microsoft a little. It’s so interesting that you have all the documents on SharePoints and all the knowledge documents and stuff, and copilot is still. So it’s so weird. Anyway, sorry.

    John Jantsch (25:46.794)

    No, yeah, yeah.

    Mm-hmm.

    John Jantsch (26:01.909)

    huh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

    No, no, no, it has that typical Microsoft feel will land there. So Peter, I appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by. Is there some place you’d invite people to find out more about AI ready CMO?

    Peter Benei (26:12.909)

    Yeah.

    Peter Benei (26:17.719)

    Always.

    Peter Benei (26:22.84)

    Well, you just said it, AIReadyCMO.com. It’s free to subscribe. We share daily updates, daily intelligence. Every day it lands the one thing that you need to know about AI in marketing in your email box. Simple.

    John Jantsch (26:25.954)

    Yep, awesome.

    John Jantsch (26:36.748)

    Yeah, it is a newsletter that I read every day. appreciate it, All right, great. Well, appreciate you stopping by and hopefully maybe one of these days we’ll run into you on the road.

    Peter Benei (26:42.476)

    Thank you.

    Peter Benei (26:50.358)

    and anytime. Thank you very much for inviting me.

    John Jantsch (26:51.797)

    us.

    powered by

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    Fame moves fast, especially in Hollywood. One year, an actor is everywhere—headlining hit movies, dominating trailers, and anchoring marketing campaigns—and not long after, they’ve quietly slipped out of the conversation. That doesn’t mean their careers ended, or that their work didn’t matter. In many cases, it just means the industry moved on, tastes shifted, or a specific moment passed. These are actors who felt inescapable not that long ago, whose faces once defined a stretch of pop culture, and who now rarely come up unless you stop and really think about them.

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    Jessica Brown Findlay – recognized for her role in Downton Abbey.
    Garrett Hedlund – remembered for Tron: Legacy and Country Strong.
    Ben Barnes – known for The Chronicles of Narnia and Westworld.
    Olivia Cooke – famous for Bates Motel and Ready Player One.
    Dylan O’Brien – widely recognized for The Maze Runner and Teen Wolf.
    Nicholas Hoult – best known for Skins and X-Men: First Class.

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