How to Attract Your Ideal Customers with the Right Brand Archetype

Sara Nay ( 00: 01.592 )

Hello and welcome to another duct tape selling season. This is Sara Nay and now I’m stepping in as number for John Jantsch. And because Jane McCarthy is my guest, we’re really doing a ladies acquisition of the display. Truly excited to talk to you, Jane. Jane has worked with clients like Sweet Tart, Southern California Edison, and Captain Pen as a brand tactician. She is the creator of the princess guide to brand.

assisting female business owners in creating a diverse and true feminine brand. So pleasant to the present, Jane.

Jane McCarthy ( 00: 33.144 )

Bless you, Sarah, I’m so glad to be here.

Sara Nay ( 00: 36. 792 )

Also, this tumble on in. The concept of queen themes is one of the topics you know you talk about a bit. And but for our viewers now, can you offer me an description as to what are queen themes and how do they relate to businesses and in business in general?

Jane McCarthy ( 00: 52. 684 )

Yeah, but let’s start with protagonist. Okay, many of us are well-versed in the themes from Hollywood films. Think about the warrior of an action movie or the outlaw of a Western. The cartoon who performs that function in a movie by providing a small amount of comic relief. We are familiar with these figures. They function

they’re played by various players, they wear different outfits, but at their core, it’s a figure we know, and that’s what’s considered an ideal. And Carl Jung, one of the well-known therapists and psychologists of the 20th centuries, came up with this idea. And he developed a set of 12 themes that can be utilized as like center figures in the individual experience. And if you consider,

Star War, that was a video that was really based on the knowledge of tropes from Carl Jung. And as selling professionals realized how to use these figures to build a product that feels like it has a genuine sense of humanity.

And so I, in my career as a brand planner, and I’ve worked in advertising for over 15 times, have loved using themes. And I discovered that we soon know the voice when I reach that defining character in a business. We have a sense of the experience, yet the hues and the images start to become apparent. And therefore I’ve used Carl Jung’s tropes throughout.

My my trip because as a brand planner. One thing I did notice was that many of those themes tended toward the male. So you have the warrior you have the protagonist is what it’s called in that structure Which is like the person next door and the adventurer and there’s that that’s fantastic but then the more romantic people were

Jane McCarthy ( 03: 08.556 )

the lover and the caregiver. And I thought, wait a minute, there are so many variations on the feminine perspective of the archetypal character. And that led me to the work of Jean-Chenota Bolin, who is a Jungian analyst. Additionally, she wrote the groundbreaking book Goddesses and Every Woman in the 1980s. And she mapped the psyche of women along archetypal lines, utilizing the Greco-Roman goddess system.

Sara Nay ( 03: 11.116 )

Hehehe

Jane McCarthy ( 03: 38.624 )

and the deities. And I thought, this is an amazing source point to bring to branding and to say, let’s look at which goddess energy, if you want a more feminine energy brand, what goddess energy are you? And that’s how I came to the goddess archetypes for branding, which are similar to those of Maiden Persephone, the goddess of youth and magic and fantasy, and Athena, the free, the huntress, Demeter, the love, the mother, or the goddess of youth and magic and fantasy. And so,

Simply put, it’s been really entertaining to outline these. have eight goddess archetypes that you can utilize to inspire your brand based on this Jungian work.

Sara Nay ( 04: 17.388 )

Yeah, that’s great. And so you get right to a few of them, but could you briefly describe the eight different architects you’ve identified?

Jane McCarthy ( 04: 24.672 )

Yes, Athena is the deity of wisdom. She’s very much about education, working within the system to create credibility and legitimacy. She strives for justice. Another example is Hestia the sacred. She was the goddess of the hearth, and she embodies everything that purifies and brings light. So I associate her with healing.

And she almost has a Zen kind of energy with products that are about wellness, sacred space, and quiet. And then we have Hera. She received a bad rap for being Zeus ‘ venomous, jealous wife. I think I see her as the regal energy and she’s the goddage of tradition and partnership. She has the energy of the queen. And…

I did a little rewriting of her story for this book, you may be aware. So those are some examples of the goddesses and how much fun it is to work with mythic archetypes and then think about how that translates into brands today in contemporary life.

Sara Nay ( 05: 40.526 )

That’s great. How would someone go about identifying which goddess they might align with as a company if they are listening today and are working on their branding and are looking for clarity and direction?

Jane McCarthy ( 05: 53.164 )

Yes, so you’re going to notice that each of these eight archetypes has a dominant gift system that each goddess has. So for example, I mentioned Diana the Free, the goddess of the hunt. So she encourages adventure, she encourages self-assurance, and she encourages venture beyond the known. And so if you’re a brand that’s about

exploring new areas, then you can rely on Diana to inspire you. So it’s a lot about what is the energy that you want to infuse your bandwidth and also the gift that you have. Venus, the goddess of beauty and pleasure, is also a gift. And so if you’re bringing the energy of like pure joy, recreation,

If you enjoy playing, you could become Venus. So it’s thinking about the, you can think about the gifts that you want to bring to your customers through the brand experience. And that brings you, among others, to your archetype. I have a bunch of different exercises, but that’s one.

Sara Nay ( 07: 09.228 )

That’s one. I find it fascinating to hear you go through that, especially since I recently took the assessment that you have on your website, which identified me as Diana the free and I’ve worked in duct tape marketing for a while.

about 14 years now and people have always looked at us as a marketing firm to be ahead, one step ahead of all the changes and evolution that’s happening in marketing. And so, when I was given that particular architect type, it perfectly matched what I’ve been doing for the past 14 years.

Jane McCarthy ( 07: 40.972 )

I adore that. And I have to admit that I saw your quiz results and I saw that some folks at Duck Tape, a lot of you guys got Diana and I thought, okay, this is a team that’s aligned. And so, yes, this is the innovative goddess who is one step ahead of the curve. And by the way, a lot of female founders have Diana as their core archetype. You’re also hitting on something, which is a brand that exists.

Sara Nay ( 07: 45.004 )

Yeah.

Sara Nay ( 07: 53. 024 )

Yes.

Jane McCarthy ( 08: 10.528 )

a person can have one, but your person can also have one. And of course, that’s what I took them from. I gave them to a young analyst who was discussing people. And so we tend to all have one core archetype that defines our personality. For instance, I am a maiden Persephone. And so I’m all about imagination and feeling into possibility and

fantasy and myth, which actually explain why I ended up doing what I did here. But this can be very informative as we think about our own mission and our own purpose. And then who you are is going to influence the energy of the brand, the energy of the business that you’re driving if we are at the heart of our business and we are the face of our business, like you are the host of this podcast. So who you are and your

Sara Nay ( 08: 47. 971 )

Yeah.

Jane McCarthy ( 09: 05.536 )

Your archetype may be related to your brand’s archetype, which may or may not be.

Sara Nay ( 09: 13.9 )

Yes, that is a lot of sense. And that’s actually a reason that I was interested in having my team take the assessment as well after I did, because, you know, I think we’ve established duct tape marketing as a brand over the years, but, one of the things that we’re always hiring for when we’re hiring new people are things, people that are up for change and up for a challenge and that want to be seen as leaders. So, what we had didn’t come as a surprise.

a bunch of Diana’s on our team because of kind of what we’ve built as a brand and who we’ve hired for. And so I’m just curious about your opinion, as this conversation about establishing a brand and engaging with potential clients is crucial. But in your experience, does it help with, you know, hiring and attracting the right type of candidates to join your team as well?

Jane McCarthy ( 09: 56.226 )

Well, I think this is a really intriguing idea. I won’t make an objective statement because I don’t have extensive experience with team building based on archetypes. But I will tell you that I’m really interested in personality types in this whole world, and I have been for some time. And I was taking a workshop on Enneagram types up at Esalen in Big Sur.

Sara Nay ( 09: 59.651 )

Yeah.

Sara Nay ( 10: 09. 176 )

Yeah.

Jane McCarthy ( 10: 22.59 )

I also mapped the Enneagram to the goddess archetypes and I made use of that system. And I remember talking with a guy who is a very successful CEO of a essential oils company. And he informed me that when he was hiring, he only hired number two, which is known as the helper in the Enneagram system, after conducting an Enneagram personality test on each applicant.

Sara Nay ( 10: 50.275 )

Mm-hmm.

Jane McCarthy ( 10: 51. 662 )

for people who were gonna be working on the floor in stores. And he was just looking for a natural helping personality to be on the frontline because we all know that having the right colors, symbols, products, and colors when you interact with people in person is essential, but if everything falls below the service level, that’s a letdown. So I think…

Sara Nay ( 10: 59.288 )

Yeah.

Jane McCarthy ( 11: 21.406 )

I saw that someone who used personality types to effectively position themselves in a company had that anecdotal story.

Sara Nay ( 11: 33.046 )

Yes, we’ve conducted a lot of assessments over the years. So that’s why I was curious in relation to yours. Let’s get to some, I enjoy hearing about examples like the one you shared there. so, but can you identify any brands that you would say embody one specific type of architect and why and how they identify that.

Jane McCarthy ( 11: 51.822 )

Okay, yes, so since we’re talking about Diana the Free, we’ll just continue on that path. She runs through the wilderness, is a huntress, and she doesn’t want to attend cocktail parties on Olympus, in my opinion. And if you think about Wonder Woman and the Wonder Woman film from 2017 that was so great, her name is Diana. This corresponds to the Athena archetype, or Diana.

Sara Nay ( 11: 55.906 )

Yeah.

Jane McCarthy ( 12: 694 )

I interviewed for the book, The Goddess Guide to Branding, a CEO named Caitlin Bram. Additionally, she established a hard cider business called Yonder, which is based in the Pacific Northwest. And they have a taproom now in Seattle. And then she has distribution throughout the area. And I think eventually she wants to go national. However, Yonder is her brand. And it’s all about the wild and wandering spirit.

of a Yonder brand And if you think about Diana as being this goddess of the wilderness, she has this wild and wandering spirit that’s about, that has to do with yonder. And there is a wolf howling at the moon on her can. And she said, I can’t tell you how many people ask me for more merch that has this wolf. They simply adore this wolf. And so you could think apples, fall festival.

Sara Nay ( 12: 51. 331 )

Mm-mm.

Sara Nay ( 13: 09.688 )

Mm-hmm.

Jane McCarthy ( 13: 16.952 )

that it’s not necessarily where you would go with a cider brand, but she went to a wild spirit, a wolf spirit, or in my case, in my book, a Diana spirit, in order to get at this adventuring spirit, first of all, so that people would think about trying something different, because most people are not familiar with hard cider, but also to deal with any issues around, think this cider is gonna be sweet.

Sara Nay ( 13: 29. 026 )

Yeah.

Jane McCarthy ( 13: 44.642 )

Her goods are not sweet, though. She focuses on making hard cider that tastes more like a cocktail. And so she combats any naysayers around by telling her brand story, this is going to be incredibly sweet. I don’t want to try it. So you can see how people’s visceral appeal to the wildness energy. But then it also helps with tell the product story in a way that will be appealing. And Diana is totally correct. It’s about adventuring forward.

Sara Nay ( 13: 50. 701 )

Yes.

Sara Nay ( 14: 12.992 )

Yes, that’s great. Can you give me another example? really enjoy using use cases like you just did there, you know. So can you talk through just one more example of a different brand? Yes. Yes. Yes.

Jane McCarthy ( 14: 18.154 )

Let me talk about it again, yes. So I love talking about the women in the book because they’re so awesome and they have, you know, fairly new companies. Additionally, Alice Mushrooms, a brand that produces functional mushroom chocolates, is another brand in the book. And so people are familiar with functional mushrooms. Some people include it in their tea. They put it in smoothies and

These women put these founders’, Lindsey Goodstein and Charlotte Wasserstein’s, into a gorgeous tin that is meant to have one square per day. So the mechanism of giving you the functional thing is a delightful treat.

And that was Charlotte Cruz, not them, sorry. We may have to, maybe I could just retake this. Is that acceptable? I don’t want to get their names wrong. I apologize so much. Okay. Okay. So Alice Mushrooms is a functional mushroom chocolate brand and they deliver the goodness of functional mushrooms in a chocolate square.

Sara Nay ( 15: 24. 332 )

Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Yes, proceed accordingly. Yeah, go ahead. That’s fine.

Jane McCarthy ( 15: 43.22 )

And so that you can consume chocolate to get your daily dose of functional mushrooms. And so then what they did with the brand, this is Charlotte Cruz and Lindsey Goodstein, these are the founders. They made the decision to employ what I refer to as a Maiden Persephone archetype. And so they took a functional mushroom chocolate and they made it delightful. Its energy was created using elements from the magical, fantastical, Alice in Wonderland universe.

And if you go onto their website, when you use your cursor, little stardust follows your cursor. So the entire experience is delightful. And interestingly, in that category, a lot of the functional mushroom products are doing 70s psychedelia. So they really do like, and I adore the Grateful Dead, but the energy is kind of tie-dye Grateful Dead. And so they completely did something different and they went to

Maiden Persephone energy, the goddess of joys, youth, and sweetness. And they created a functional mushroom product that’s very feminine, very elevated. And so they discovered an archetype that was genuinely inspired by Alice. And I would think of this as Maiden Persephone that differentiates them in market and appeals to people in a wholly different way compared to having a functional mushroom tea.

Sara Nay ( 17: 10848 )

I love it. Thank you for supplying both of those examples. I’m gonna have to go check out their website and see the fairy dust. You have now piqued my interest. My next question to you is let’s say someone’s listening today and they just overall like feel like their branding is tired. needs to be redesigned, not done. How would you encourage them to approach this whole topic and just brand strategy in general?

Jane McCarthy ( 17: 32. 94)

Yeah, so I think this is a really intriguing thing to take on because what I want to caution is you never want to walk away too quickly from something that you’re known for. Establishing credibility, legitimacy, and connection with customers takes time. That takes a lot of time. So if you’ve ever visited a market,

First, you want to look at what people love about you and really savor that and make sure that you build on that in a fresh way rather than throwing everything out. I’m always advising against a complete reboot, and I believe an evolution, using the word evolution, would be nice. And so then thinking about what people love about you and then what is the credible impact you can have on their life.

I would suggest starting from there and looking to the archetype who delivers that, getting really grounded in the meaning you bring, getting really clear about it, and then creating various creative and original ways to do things. That’s in the creative expression, right? That is within the tactical imagination. But strategy-wise, don’t be too quick to walk away from what you’ve developed. Find out what works best.

about what you do, what people love about you, and then amplify that. And you can determine your archetype if you purchase the book. And I have a system for thinking about how to evolve. However, my main tip is to not be too quickly and leave what people love. Instead, come up with fresh ways to deliver on that.

Sara Nay ( 19: 22. 754 )

That’s great. And one more query, which I had today. So I’m glad that you mentioned your book there. What can people anticipate when they pick up your book? What are they going to learn? What else can they expect to gain from that book, aside from learning what archetype makes the most sense for them?

Jane McCarthy ( 19: 37.472 )

Yes, so the first step is to identify your archetype. And in a lot of ways, it can unlock other keys to what I call your brand blueprint. However, I walk you through this complete set of exercises in the book to give you a complete brand blueprint. so for me, that’s not just the archetype, but we also share how you figure out the heart of your brand. What then is that primary drive, that driving force, and so on?

Many of us who are into marketing are familiar with Simon Sinek’s idea of why, like why you’re doing this and what is that raw passion behind your business? So that’s clear. And then the, what I call the gift. What is the main emotion that you want people to experience from your brand? And so what is the takeaway feeling that they have?

after they have used your brand in the past. So we wanna get clear on, once you know the feeling you wanna give people, you can come up with a million different ways of delivering on that feeling. However, we want to know what kind of positive impact you want to make on a personal level. And then the style piece, which I think of both the iconic elements of your brand, so your colors, your symbols, the words, the voice, those are things that are true threat over time. Then there are a few more…

exercises to start to think about how you then live that brand day by day, that brand identity day by day in terms of the dynamic actions. So what’s going on in the social media calendar this month, etc.? So you leave with a complete brand blueprint that I think boils down the essentials of what makes a brand identity.

Sara Nay ( 21: 26.582 )

Yeah, that’s great. And John and I have been discussing the importance of marketing right now with all of the changes in many of those components. Like it’s becoming more and more important to connect with your clients on an emotional level and to tell the story of why and to represent the brand in a positive light. Similar to how those are gaining in importance in marketing. So I’m glad that you touch on all of those in the book. Where can you find Jane if someone wants to connect with you online?

Jane McCarthy ( 21: 53.464 )

So I have a website, goddessoffice .com, and then I’m also using Substack, goddessoffice. substack .com, and I would love for you to reach out.

Sara Nay ( 22: 04438 )

Awesome. Thank you so much, Jane. really loved learning from you and speaking with you and thank you everyone for listening to the duct tape marketing podcast. Next time, we’ll see you.