How to Turn a Moment Into Momentum

John Jantsch ( 00: 00. 898 )

Hello and welcome to another season of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My host today is Don Yeager. He’s a New York Times bestselling author, management specialist, and sought after speech with profound knowledge interviewing world-class players, coaches, and company leaders. Don has distilled the principles of great achievement into a workable model. His latest publication, the fresh

For officials who want sustained success, Science of Momentum issues conventional wisdom and provides a research-backed handbook. Thus, Don, welcome to the present. Should we see how some activities cliches we can use in this meeting?

Don Yaeger ( 00: 36.413 )

Hey John, thank you so much, looking forward to it.

I don’t understand. I feel like I’m already in the bottom of the seventh. suggest, you know, because yeah, good.

John Jantsch ( 00: 47.31 )

But, just take it one issue at a time. You could do that all you could. But, in terms of cliches, you make the argument that speed is a research rather than just a cliche. What made you handle this matter?

Don Yaeger ( 01: 06.493 )

I was watching the Super Bowl a few years back when the New England Patriots lost to the Atlanta Falcons 28 to 3. I’m sure like many of your viewers. And the prognosticator said Atlanta had a 99.4 % chance of winning the game at that period. The majority of Americans disregarded the outcome because it was around. And then instantly, Tom Brady.

John Jantsch ( 01: 24.483 )

Yeah.

Don Yaeger ( 01: 31.707 )

runs 12 miles on second and eight. Right, Tom Brady ran for 12 miles all year long. That’s not who he is. And one tiny item after another started stacking up and very quickly, as we all know, New England created the greatest return in the background of the Super Bowl. And I watched, and Joe Buck delivered this excellent line at the end of the sport. said, New England has rewritten the expression, redefined the term speed tonight.

So I went downstairs, brought in the creative group that works for me, opened the board, and simply wrote,” How do you turn a time into momentum?” Is speed be manufactured? Can we scientist it? May we construct it? Or is it we just have to wait on anything nice to happen? And that was the start of an eight-year project that sought to understand the best leaders in the world in the fields of sports, elections, the defense, and business.

John Jantsch ( 02: 13.027 )

No.

Don Yaeger ( 02: 29.828 )

How do they create speed?

John Jantsch ( 02: 32.716 )

Yes, this talk a little bit about that. Reason I think most people probably think in terms of of speed, something you just getting caught up in, you know, it takes you, it carries you. Best. And you, you, contest that it is actually, yes. Yes. Yes. But, but once, was going to say, since your argument may be engineered, there like causes or items that you found that stop, you know, that, that approach.

Don Yaeger ( 02: 38.491 )

Right. Right. And that is possible, by the way, but it can be real. Yes. But the great ones don’t wait on it.

Don Yaeger ( 02: 54.247 )

There are actually, a big piece of it is, in fact, in the book, we actually built a model for how momentum can be constructed in your organization. What’s interesting is that, in my opinion, it always started with a spark, something that happened, right? What I grew to understand from talking to these great leaders is that there’s an entire framework of effort that is created before the spark. in that framework,

The first thing you need to do is create the right culture, one where we aren’t pitting our teammates against one another, which happens too frequently, and then you have to find other talented people who can cheer for other talented people right, which is very difficult. The second thing is that there is an entire model of preparation that allows you to be mentally prepared when the spark strikes, which allows you to capture sparks.

John Jantsch ( 03: 49.549 )

Thanks

Don Yaeger ( 03:30.695 )

that others miss. And we use great examples from great leaders in all three of those kind of pre-spark elements that teach you that you can actually then engineer the moment. Then, as the time comes, it might be small, but you can still treat it like a large object. if you do so, you can actually, as we said, you can create momentum where other people might be sitting back

and pondering when my spark will appear?

John Jantsch ( 04: 23.606 )

Yeah, it’s interesting. know that many times, I believe, people think you were exactly in the right place at the right time. And there is a lot of truth to that, but it’s also recognizing the right place, right? And acting, isn’t that?

Don Yaeger ( 04: 35.699 )

Yes. In fact, one of our outstanding interviews, one of my favorite interviews in the entire book, involved a basketball coach named Buzz Williams. Buzz was the coach at Texas A &amp, M last few years. Although he is currently the head coach of Maryland, Buzz has been around all season long off season, off-season, and whenever you pass by his office or one of his players. He’ll say, John, get in here. And he’ll pop open the laptop and on his laptop, he’ll have.

a contest, a competitive competition that is frequently occurring but not in basketball, is that correct? It could be women’s volleyball, could be softball, baseball, football. And he demands that the spectator sit down before playing the six to seven-minute match. He then opens up the laptop and begins the play. Then he closes the laptop and he said, tell me exactly what is the time left in the game right now?

What’s the score in this very moment that I just closed the laptop and who has momentum on their side? And let me know why you think that. And what he wants is he wants to build within his players this awareness of what’s happening around them so that as something good happens, they are better in position to grab onto it, do something with it.

John Jantsch ( 5: 50. 594 )

Yes.

Don Yaeger ( 06: 01.107 )

You know, the business analogy of that would be, you know, those organizations, and there are plenty of them that are very good, that create what if teams, right? What if a group of executives who regularly attend the meeting are asking themselves? I mean, let’s, let’s throw something crazy out there. What if the US president decides to impose tariffs on every nation in the world and the other half of our supply chain disappears? What if, what, what, would never happen.

John Jantsch ( 06: 27.598 )

that would never occur. Why are we even talking about that?

Don Yaeger ( 06: 31.485 )

But if it were to happen, what would we do? Right? What if the CEO of our biggest rival is suddenly seen hugging his HR director at a Coldplay performance on a big screen? What if? That would never happen, after all, right? Nobody would ever do that. But the truth is, if you can start thinking about what if concepts, what it does, forget whether those are the exact same things that happened.

The idea is that we are constantly considering the world as our playing field. And when you’re thinking about the world as your playing field, you have a greater opportunity to capture those moments when they come.

John Jantsch ( 17 :176 )

So we’ve been talking about catching momentum and engineering momentum. What are some ways that you found that people actually, probably not intentionally, but actually kill momentum?

Don Yaeger ( 07: 29.113 )

well, one of the easiest ways to kill momentum is to not recognize it when it happens. Right? So something comes along an opportunity, a, and you sit and you’re busy chuckling because you’re thinking, how crazy is that? And instead of, capturing and using the moment to your advantage, you’re, you’re laughing about it. And very quickly the moment is over. Right? For a reason, they are called sparks. you know, they don’t last.

John Jantsch ( 07: 34.286 )

Yes. Yes.

John Jantsch ( 07 :50.22 )

Yeah.

Don Yaeger ( 07: 55.707 )

unless you’ve built the kindling, which is all the work you do in advance, and you fan the flames, which is what you do after the spark takes hold. So this idea that it’s you, but that the other ways to destroy momentum are simply by employing subpar organizations, let’s say you recruit people, and being so focused that I don’t want to be proud if I’m not the cause of positive things happening. I’m not happy.

You know, the next time you as a group are honoring a member of your team who just did something amazing, is the way you learn this. They made a massive sale. They closed the deal. They ejected the rival. Look for the A players on your team. Where did they go during that celebration? Are they at the front high-fiving the guy, the woman that makes this deal? Or are they in the back grousing, damn it, that should have been my deal.

John Jantsch ( 08:25.944 )

Yeah.

Don Yaeger ( 08: 55.345 )

Exactly? Should have been my opportunity. And you start to realize what you have. There is a whole, whole, you know, discussion around what are called mirror neurons, which is what, which is how, you know, we’ve all seen someone walk into a room and yawn. In the world of neuroscience, there is no such thing as a place without people who can celebrate each other. Other people suddenly start yawning, right? When we mimic a situation, mirror neurons are what.

John Jantsch ( 09: 19.825 )

He

Don Yaeger ( 09: 24.367 )

if we feel a connection to it. Well, if I feel like your success is to my detriment, then the mirror neurons in the room are actually quite negative, right? And people take notice of that. And suddenly the vibe changes and that’s a way to kill momentum, by the way.

John Jantsch ( 09: 39.246 )

Mm.

John Jantsch ( 09: 46. 126 )

Were there any examples of people that you’ve spoken with over the years? Sometimes you have to make a drastic change because you think the market is moving in the right direction. I remember talking to some folks in advertising in newspapers. In the early days of the eight, yeah. but in its early stages.

Don Yaeger ( 10: 04.432 )

Wait, newspapers? Wait, I know, my kids still laugh at me that I still grab the New York Times when I’m going through an airport.

John Jantsch ( 10: 13.474 )

They were laughing in the beginning of the internet, which is exactly how this Craigslist thing is. and you know, it pretty much because they, you know, they wouldn’t make the move early to say, we got to kill classified ads and make them free because, you know, they’re going to eat our lunch if we don’t. and, you may be aware that grabbing that momentum or an opportunity that seems obvious means you’re going to.

Don Yaeger ( 10: 31.677 )

Right.

John Jantsch ( 10: 39.512 )

you know, killed the golden goose? how do you, did you talk to anybody that really, you know, saw momentum as a real negative to begin with, but as where the market was inevitably headed?

Don Yaeger ( 10: 51. 473 )

Well, yeah, momentum. mean, if you’re momentum is when you had the wind to your back, right? That is what momentum is. If you want positive momentum. You might need to turn and change if you shift, fence, or feel the wind blowing toward your, your, or your front. mean, there are a couple of companies that we, that we focused on who built momentum after pretty significant layoffs of employees. Like they had to make the hard choices, but in order to get right,

John Jantsch ( 10: 56. 386 )

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Jantsch ( 11: 17.837 )

Yeah, yeah.

Don Yaeger ( 11: 21.309 )

for the market to get the job right so they can profit from the upcoming market opportunity. They couldn’t be, they couldn’t have the, so yes, uncomfortable as that was, it was the choice that helped them be ready for an upcoming opportunity to expand that opportunity and take it and create that wind to their back.

John Jantsch ( 11: 45. 39 )

How do you measure momentum? mean, some cases, there’s certainly very tangible results like revenues up, things like that. But I have a suspicion that some of it is incremental. Are there metrics that you can say, this means we have momentum?

Don Yaeger ( 12: 03.217 )

No, because momentum at its core is a state of mind, right? It’s a belief system at its core. That’s what momentum actually is. There’s a scientific version of momentum, right? Which would you do if you suddenly heard a pendulum swing or something similar. There’s a scientific version of that. But in in real life, momentum at its core is a is a belief system. So the situation

What you, how do you measure belief system by the number of people who are participating in it, right? You don’t really have momentum if you’re the leader and the only one who believes because you need to be able to create moments as a group. You have to, I mean, remember that question I wrote at the beginning, how do you turn a moment into momentum?

And there was a lot of the preparation piece, having the right people on your team. One of the few instances in the book where we used a negative as an example is found in the recruiting section. And the story we share was, you may or may not remember when Michael Jordan retired for the first time from the Chicago Bulls. Scottie Pippen had been his Robin throughout all those years.

Exactly? His bat. Batman was he? Scotty was Robin and Scotty Pippen kind of objected to that. He aspired to be Batman in the first place. He believed he was worthy. So suddenly Jordan’s out of the picture and Scotty is Batman. And Scotty is okay in that first season of Batman. Good. However, they are in, and they are in a crucial game against the New York Knicks when they reach the postseason. Two seconds left. Phil Jackson calls a timeout. Like Scotty Pippen,

John Jantsch ( 13: 28.696 )

Yes.

John Jantsch ( 13: 33. 986 )

Yeah.

Don Yaeger ( 13: 55.581 )

I’m Batman. got, I’m going to take the shot right away to take our position above the rest. Cause that’s what I’ve been waiting for. Tony Kukoc will have to write a play for Jackson to play the shot. Scottie Pippen refuses to get off the bench. He’s like, I’m not even going to the game. If you hadn’t scheduled the play for me, I’ve been waiting all these years. Now it’s my turn and you’re going to give the shot to Tony Kukoc and Pippen refused to get off the bench.

No one on his team ever saw him again in the same light. In fact, they, they, they, they, to this day, if in the NBA, you commit a very selfish act as a teammate, it’s referred to as pulling a Pippen, right? Because Scotty Pippen was so absorbed with the idea that it had to be his. You know, obviously in the NBA, you, you, you pick players and sign contracts with them. So it’s not like you can dump Pippen.

John Jantsch ( 14: 25.837 )

Yes.

John Jantsch ( 14: 36.459 )

You

Don Yaeger ( 14: 52.199 )

But what they immediately realized was that he could not and could not be the team’s leader. so when you’re picking people to put on your team, pick people who can be happy when somebody else does well, as just as they would be happy if they did it as well for themselves.

John Jantsch ( 15: 13.378 )

So, you know, the thing about sports is, I mean, there’s a winner and there’s a loser, right? In a game. It’s not quite so clear in business.

Don Yaeger ( 15: 22.445 )

There may not be a scoreboard broadcast to the world, but you might not, as we may not. Typically, the scoreboard is known internally. I was working with a company last week, a massive international company and they can look at most many of their products that they are currently in the marketplace with and where they were once the leader of the pack in that product line.

Many of them they are they are not anymore now to the world. Everyone knows who they are, but internally they are aware that they have lost momentum, right? They still look, they still look pretty, and they’re still a fantastic brand. They have lost That others are taking their space. There are scoreboards, therefore. They just may not be always as public as we’re used to in sports

John Jantsch ( 16: 15.128 )

So you have spent a lot of your time as a biographer, and your books have been very successful. Would that be the right term to use? Yes, that’s correct.

Don Yaeger ( 16: 22.119 )

Yeah, yeah, I’m a teammate with Deon Sanders and all kinds of other people to help tell their stories.

John Jantsch ( 28. 138 )

So for this book, you probably didn’t go live with any CEOs for a couple of months or anything. What’s been your method for sort of obtaining these tales from some of the people?

Don Yaeger ( 16: 38.727 )

I think what happened was many people were fascinated by the curiosity. The notion that, as you may well be aware, there is momentum in sports. everybody. Yes. The other team has momentum, right? we have momentum. Absolutely. It’s probably it’s, it’s as great. It’s used as frequently as there is in broadcast. but in business and in other places, it’s known, but not studied. It’s not been studied.

John Jantsch ( 16: 52. 878 )

Yeah, broadcasters say it all the time during games, right? Yes.

John Jantsch ( 17: 07.704 )

Yeah, yeah, right.

Don Yaeger ( 17: 08.763 )

And so the idea that I was coming at it and that I was coming at it from four verticals, right? Was, um, mean, because we look at it. How did some of the world’s greatest generals sit down with us to discuss how to build momentum into your game and battle plan, no? How do you win small, how do you create small victories to win momentum? And then business, know, some of the great business leaders and politics.

How do you create momentum in a campaign to win an election, James Carville and Karl Rove chatted with us. You want to peak at the right time, obviously. And so all of these conversations turned out to be fascinating conversations and people who, according to most people of significance, sort of want to be in. They want to be in that conversation. So, wait, you got, I’d like to talk next, basically.

John Jantsch ( 17: 58.496 )

Mm-hmm. mm-hmm. Yes.

John Jantsch ( 18: 04.366 )

Yes. So if somebody’s listening to this, a leader’s listening to this and they want to make it a part of their culture, because I think I hear that as much as, as anything, you know, you, got to get as many people to believe, you know, well, that’s, that’s probably the definition of culture. I mean, is there a single ritual or habit you would share with someone? Okay. You have to start this, this week.

Don Yaeger ( 18: 26.579 )

I think what you have as a habit among those that, again, I’m just the voice of the people that I had the chance to interview, was you speak truth into the conversation every week. If people begin to believe that you’re blowing smoke, that you’re spinning the numbers, or that you’re creating, like the business I was talking about last week.

If the CEO were to walk in and say, guys, we are right on the edge of just kicking the world by the tail. Everybody in the room would know that CEO was not telling the truth. So they either lied or were disconnected from the truth. And you want to be neither of those things if you’re a leader. So speaking truth into the situation is one of the most crucial things you must do each week in order to inspire others to have a vision that they think is possible.

John Jantsch ( 19: 06.958 )

you

Don Yaeger ( 19: 22.161 )

And that’s where you start to build that tenet.

John Jantsch ( 19: 25.802 )

And I think a lot of leaders find this difficult because they are looked up, they are supposed to have all the answers, they know, they’re like taking us somewhere great, right. And so for them to admit, I don’t have all the answers or maybe things aren’t going like we thought, I mean, could be really tough, can’t it? Yes.

Don Yaeger ( 1988 ) 28.115 ).

It’s very hard.

Don Yaeger ( 1941.423 )

It can be, but if you, the alternative is an absolute loser.

John Jantsch ( 19: 48.77 )

Yes. Well, Don, I appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by the duct tape marketing podcast. Do you have a place where you would invite people to? know you have your own podcast that you’d love people to listen to and then obviously find out about the new science of momentum.

Don Yaeger ( 19: 58.365 )

to a business rival.

Don Yaeger ( 20: 04.913 )

Yeah, you’re correct, Don Yeager.com is the best place to visit. because I know a lot of people misspell my last name, I own all iterations of my last name on the internet. And so, yeah, I welcome your listeners to the conversation.

John Jantsch ( 20: 35 )

Good for you.

John Jantsch ( 20: 27.086 )

Awesome. Well, again, appreciate you stop by and hopefully we’ll run into you again one of these days soon out there on the road.

Don Yaeger ( 20: 32. 765 )

Good job, thank you.